Filed under: Retirement Plan
Question:
A Notre Dame professor has analyzed Dick Cheney’s 2005 tax return and concluded that our fair Vice President exploited a new tax law instituted post-Katrina to save himself several million dollars. It turns out that Smirky Dick used a loophole intended to encourage charitable donations for Katrina relief to write off charitable contribution which went to non-Katrina causes. That alone might not be enough to get irked about, except that it looks like the exploitation of the loophole was deliberate to minimize his overall liability, and he used Halliburton money to do it. Cheney exercised some of his Halliburton options in late 2005, during which time that company’s profits were soaring in part because of fat no-bid reconstruction contracts granted to its subsidiary KBR in the wake of Katrina. Cheney used those proceeds — $6.8 million — to donate to charities per his 2001 agreement to use his options only for charity. Says the prof: "While there’s nothing inappropriate about that from a legal perspective, it does demonstrate how the legislation, which was sold to the public as providing relief to Katrina victims, provided significant tax benefits to the VP (and potentially other wealthy individuals) in situations that have nothing to do with Hurricane Katrina." Not illegal but definitely soulless, cynical, opportunist, and greedty. So, no big surprise. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2006/04/kirsch_cheney_t.html
Response:
> Not illegal but definitely soulless, cynical, opportunist, and greedty. > So, no big surprise. > http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2006/04/kirsch_cheney_t.html
The man donates over SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS to charity and he is called greedy and soulless!
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Go ahead and keep hating Cheney and "the rich". It won’t improve your life. Cheney gave more to charity than Gore did his entire life, and I’m talking %, NOT total.
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> Go ahead and keep hating Cheney and "the rich". It won’t improve your > life. Cheney gave more to charity than Gore did his entire life, and > I’m talking %, NOT total.
Gore never shot any of his hunting buddies. (The charities are much more concerned with the total.) –E
Response:
Gore never shot any of his hunting buddies.? That’s cause he’s a bad shot. ;-) And of course Dick is WAY ahead on the total, by a factor of at least 1,000. Cheers E, Mick (having more fun than a conservative should be allowed to have)
Response:
> Gore never shot any of his hunting buddies.? > That’s cause he’s a bad shot. ;-)
However you want to rationalize it! ;) > And of course Dick is WAY ahead on the total, by a factor of at least > 1,000.
I think it’s fair to say that Cheney never gave away a dime that didn’t benefit him personally in some way. > Cheers E, > Mick (having more fun than a conservative should be allowed to have)
I thought conservatives had fun by fucking up the world beyond repair. 
–E
Response:
> I think it’s fair to say that Cheney never gave away a dime that didn’t > benefit him personally in some way.
Please do explain how giving over SEVEN MILLION Dollars to charity in 2005 benefited Dick Cheney.
Response:
> Please do explain how giving over SEVEN MILLION Dollars to charity in 2005 > benefited Dick Cheney.
It benefitted him to the tune of a nearly $2,000,000 refund… "It appears that the VP is a major beneficiary of the Hurricane Katrina tax relief act. In particular, he claimed $6.8 million of charitable deductions, which is 77% of his AGI — well in excess of the 50% limitation that would have applied absent the Katrina legislation. The press release indicates that the charitable contribution reflects the amount of net proceeds from an independent administrator’s exercise of the VP’s Halliburton options — apparently, the VP had agreed back in 2001 that he would donate the net proceeds from the options to charities once they were exercised." – Huffington Post, 5/3/06 And: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/18/115445/192
Response:
>> Please do explain how giving over SEVEN MILLION Dollars to charity in > 2005 > benefited Dick Cheney. > It benefitted him to the tune of a nearly $2,000,000 refund…
So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit?
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> >> Please do explain how giving over SEVEN MILLION Dollars to charity in >> 2005 >> benefited Dick Cheney. > It benefitted him to the tune of a nearly $2,000,000 refund… > So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit?
He’d already promised, as a part of his "separation" from Halliburton, to give away the $7 million. By using the Katrina scam he got a refund of almost $2 millon. He’s scum.
Response:
>> So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit? > He’d already promised, as a part of his "separation" from Halliburton, > to give away the $7 million.
So that anyone that claimed that be was benefitting from Halliburton would NOT be telling the truth. He could have kept that money and he didn’t, he chose to give it to charity so fools like you would have no validity when you did your Halliburton?Cheney rants. By using the Katrina scam he got a refund > of almost $2 millon. He’s scum.
So taking a tax deduction is scummy? Were you so scummy as to take a tax deduction?
Response:
> >> So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit? > He’d already promised, as a part of his "separation" from Halliburton, > to give away the $7 million. > So that anyone that claimed that be was benefitting from Halliburton would > NOT be telling the truth.
You’re an idiot. He had to give away the $7 million in any case but he used the "Katrina" rules to get a $2 million refund that he wouldn’t normally get. This wouldn’t be a problem except for the fact that the money he gave away didn’t go to any Katrina charities….
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>> >> So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit? > > He’d already promised, as a part of his "separation" from Halliburton, > > to give away the $7 million. > So that anyone that claimed that be was benefitting from Halliburton > would > NOT be telling the truth. > You’re an idiot. > He had to give away the $7 million in any case
Oh please do tell how he "had" to give away 7 Million, and include links with your clips!
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> > He had to give away the $7 million in any case > Oh please do tell how he "had" to give away 7 Million
It was a part of the separation agreement when he left Halliburton that when he eventually exercised certain of his stock options he’d give the money to charity.
Response:
About two years ago, Dick Cheney told a national television audience, "[S]ince I left Halliburton to become George Bush’s vice president, I’ve severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interests," Cheney said. "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven’t had now for over three years." Even at the time, the claim wasn’t true. A non-partisan congressional report requested by Sen. Frank Lautenberg’s (D-N.J.) office showed that Cheney still has substantial financial interests in Halliburton, including lucrative deferred compensation and more than 433,000 stock options. But instead of acknowledging the ties divesting himself from his former company, Cheney denied everything. Lautenberg, to his enormous credit, has stuck with this story, and issued a report today explaining that the value of Cheney’s Halliburton stock options rose in value 3281% in one year. An analysis released today by the Office of Senator Frank R. Lautenberg reveals that Vice President Cheney’s Halliburton stock options have increased in value 3,281 percent in one year. The stock options, which were worth $241,498 one year ago are now valued at $8,165,489.07. In light of the surging value of Vice President Cheney’s holdings, Senator Lautenberg reiterated his call for the Vice President to forfeit his continuing financial interest in the Halliburton Co (HAL). Vice President Cheney continues to hold 433,333 Halliburton stock options and receives almost $200,000 a year in deferred salary from Halliburton. "As Halliburton’s fortunes rise, so do the Vice President’s, and that is wrong," said Senator Lautenberg. "Halliburton has already raked in more than $10 billion from the Bush-Cheney Administration for work in Iraq, and they were awarded some of the first Katrina contracts. It is unseemly for the Vice President to continue to benefit from this company at the same time his Administration funnels billions of dollars to it. The Vice President should sever his financial ties to Halliburton once and for all." Given the circumstances, that seems like a reasonable suggestion. According to the Vice President’s Federal Financial Disclosure forms, he holds the following Halliburton stock options: * 100,000 shares at $54.5000 (vested), expire 12-03-07 * 33,333 shares at $28.1250 (vested), expire 12-02-08 * 300,000 shares at $39.5000 (vested), expire 12-02-09 This continues to be a political problem for Cheney that can be easily resolved. Cheney could simply do what he claims to have already done: sever his ties and remove his financial interests from the company. Considering Halliburton’s lucrative government contracts, and the dubious conditions surrounding the deals, this should be a no-brainer for the White House. The longer they wait, the more Lautenberg is going to make Cheney look bad. Cheney is a lieing bastard!!! Besides getting rid of his Halliburton stock he should be punished for lieing and feeding Halliburton contracts. To me, the ridiculous 3281% increase is almost secondary to the deceit. This is a three part scandal 1) Halliburton keeps getting no-bid contracts 2) Cheney’s portfolio keeps getting bigger 3) Cheney lies about it. He’ll keep lying until he feels enough pressure to divest. I can pony up a WH response: 1. "Financial interest" has a specific definition under executive branch ethics rules and either (a) does not include stock options; (b) includes stock options but precludes their exercise while in office; or (c) includes option but only if they are exercisable within X years of your government employment. 2. Cheney has pledged not to exercise any of these options while he is vice president. 3. What are you gonna do about it? Just shillin’ for the man. This profitable arrangement was found hiding in plain sight last week by investigator Maggie Burns of the Progressive Populist. While the media mandarins were gulping soap, Burns committed the increasingly rare act of journalism by checking out Cheney’s financial disclosure forms. These show that Cheney has a minimum of $18 million invested in The Vanguard Group, a leading mutual fund. (Given the deliberately vague, vast ranges of the "disclosure" forms, this nest-egg could be as high as $87 million. We mere mortals are not meant to know). Vanguard, as it happens, is the 10th-largest shareholder in — oh, you guessed already! — Halliburton. The fund owns 7.6 million shares in the firm, worth about $176 million. Thus any government contract that swells Halliburton’s bottom line does indeed pour war profits straight into Cheney’s bulging bank accounts. No amount of soap can wash away that fact. Meanwhile, five of the other top 10 shareholders in Halliburton have big bucks parked with our old friends The Carlyle Group, where George Bush Sr. hangs out his shingle as a pricey corporate shill (and former bin Laden business partner). So Bush family coffers are definitely not forgotten when Halliburton goes to war. http://www.populist.com/03.19.burns.html
Response:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/18/115445/192 So, to bring this all back and to summarize, we have this: By exploiting a law that was meant for people to donate to Katrina relief, Cheney was able to net a $2,000,000 tax refund. At least half, if not more if this refund was solely due to their exploiting of this law. In order to do this, they had to write a personal check for over $2,000,000 at the end of 2005. None of the donations were to any Katrina relief organizations. The donations were from income related to Halliburton, which Cheney supposedly had no financial ties to. In any other year, they still would have received a few hundred thousand in tax refunds from this "non-financial tie" to Halliburton, if they donated the proceeds to charity. In each of the prior three years, their donations were never more than 4%-5% of their 2005 totals, the only year that this law applies to. Once again, they flat out lie in their press release by obscuring the million or so that they personally benefited from this transaction. The timing, while not illegal, is extremely self serving and shady, especially in light of the fact that they should not be benefiting financially from any ties to Halliburton. shows that they made a $2.7 million donation to the Cardiothoracic Institute of George Washington University Medical Center, where the vice president has been treated for heart ailments. They also gave $1.3 million to Capital Partners for Education, a Georgetown-based scholarship fund that helps finance education at private schools for area teenagers. It was the largest single contribution in the charity’s history. Together with a $2.7 million to the University of Wyoming, where the vice president graduated in 1965 and his wife taught English, the couple made about $6.8 million in charitable donations last year. Washinton Post Payoffs to his doctors, private schools and his alma mater. Whatta guy. The first two things I am referring to (1+ / 0-) Recommended by:clammyc #1) Cheney worked for Halliburton and said he had no financial ties to it. Yet he still gets income tax deductions when the stock options are exercised and given to charities. That number ballooned due to Katrina legislation. #2) See #1 and add: Of all the money given to charity last year, $0.00 went to Katrina charities. He got more deductibles because the vague wording of the Katrina legislation allowed any money to any charity to go above the 50% of income threshold. Therefore, he gave money to (0 Katrina-related) charities in excess of the 50% threshold due to Katrina legislation. That money was then returned to him as an income tax deduction. .
Response:
Spurred on by clammyc’s diary about Cheney’s charitable contributions. I started wondering why Cheney would give so much money ($1.3 million) to Capital Partners for Education, a Georgetown-based scholarship fund that helps finance education at private and parochial schools for area teenagers. (http://www.cpfe.org/) It was not only the largest single contribution in the charity’s history, but also represents twice their annual budget revenue for this fiscal year. (hat-tips to AMcG826 and mspicata; and I see that HeyThereItsEric has also done some digging). Here’s the rub – this organization seems (at least on the surface – and that’s as far as I’ve gone) to be an admirable one for inner-city DC youth. And that’s the BIG RED FLAG for me. Why would Dick Cheney do that? Much more below the flip dannyinla’s diary :: :: Why be suspicious – well, that’s how this administration has conditioned us. Since everything they do is under a cloud of secrecy, it’s Pavlovian for me. If Cheney does it, it must be wrong. So, I poke my nose around a little further and the mystery gets even deeper. A solid majority of these companies represented by the Board of Directors have connections to Iraqi and/or rebuilding and reconstruction. It spreads out like a web and touches everything from Halliburton to President Hamid Karzai’s security. And why? This is a group that seems to be benevolent in its support of inner city youth. But I’ve learned that in the Bush-Cheney world, benevolence can’t just be benevolence. It’s like when Barbara Bush donated money to the Katrina fund… and then we learn it was earmarked for Ignite!, an educational system for Houston schools. Heck, how can that be bad? But then we find out that Ignite was started by her son, Neal Bush… and that it received financial support from a vast array of foreign concerns, not the least of which was Boris Berezovsky, the Godfather of the Kremlin… and pal of Neal Bush’s. See… when these evil bastards give money for good causes… it seems like there’s always an undercurrent that they are trying to cover. Let’s take a look at the Board for Capital Partners for Education. I want to preface this by saying that many of these people seem okay. Many donate to Republicans; many donate to Democrats. As individuals, there aren’t that many black marks here. But it’s the companies that they work for that raise eyebrows. Why does CPE have two members of The Carlyle Group on their board? That’s the first thing that jumps out. Praveen Jeyarajah Managing Director, The Caryle Group Charles Rossotti Senior Advisor, The Caryle Group Carlyle specializes in the following industries: Aerospace & Defense, Automotive, Consumer & Industrial, Energy & Power, Healthcare, Real Estate, Technology & Business Services, Telecommunication & Media, and Transportation. The Group’s aerospace and defense investments have been a source of criticism because of the Group’s alleged connections to the Middle East. The Carlyle Group’s investments are focused on East Asia, Europe and North America. Defense investments represent about 1% of the group’s current portfolio — though this translates, for example, into a 33.8% ownership of QinetiQ, the UK’s recently privatized defense company — but this is the area for which Carlyle Group is best known. Then there’s the Hudson Institute, whose trustees and fellows include Richard Perle, Conrad Black and Scooter Libby. They operate various programs (listed below), including one run by Meyrav Wurmser, wife of David Wurmser, the former Middle East advisor to Dick Cheney, and one of the authors of the neocon strategy paper titled "Clean Break." Carol Adelman, PhD Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute The Hudson Institute is a non-profit think tank headquartered in Washington D.C. While describing itself as "non-partisan" and preferring to portray itself as independently "contrarian" rather than as a conservative think tank, the Hudson Institute gains financial support from many of the foundations and corporations that have bankrolled the conservative movement. [snip]… [I]n the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks it has substantially boosted its focus on international issues such as the Middle East, Latin America and Islam. The Institute now operates a number of programs – each of which are dubbed as a "center" or "project" – including: * Center for Islam, Democracy and the Future of the Muslim World – Hillel Fradkin Director * Islam and Democracy Project – Husain Haqqani Co-Chair; * Project on Campaign and Election Laws – Amy Kaufman; * Center for Middle East Policy – Meyrav Wurmser Director; Then there’s Computer Sciences Corporation: Caralyn Brace Partner, Computer Sciences Corporation In March 2003, Computer Sciences Corporation., one of the country’s leading IT consulting firms with revenue of more than $11 billion in 2002, acquired DynCorp for $950 million. Computer Sciences Corporation had more than 1,000 contracts with the U.S. government from 1990 through 2002, worth $15.8 billion. Iraq contracts On April 18, 2003, Computer Sciences Corporation’s DynCorp International won a contract from the U.S. Department of State to provide up to 1,000 civilian advisers to help organize civilian law enforcement, judicial and correctional agencies. Afghanistan contracts In November 2002, the State Department’s Diplomatic Security Services took over responsibility for President Hamid Karzai’s security from the U.S. military. Part of the work was then contracted out to DynCorp, which also assisted in the protection of Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the Haitian president, in the early 1990s. http://www.publicintegrity.org/… On to Hogan and Hartson LLP J. Warren Gorrell, Jr. Chairman, Hogan & Hartson, LLP Rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraq Pursuing Opportunities & Managing Risk Iraq Legal Issues Mr. Robert Kyle, Partner, Hogan & Hartson LLP – Planning for Operations in Iraq http://www.yuricareport.com/… How about Arlington Capital Partners? And how about the company they transformed into? QinetiQ. Sound familiar? Scroll back up to the Carlyle Group, which owns 1/3 of QinetiQ. John A. Bates Principal, Arlington Capital Partners Among the private equities that have focused their efforts on the emerging homeland security contracting, trying to replicate Carlyle’s success with defense contracting, are Paladin Capital Partners, Arlington Capital Partners, and Behrman Capital. Arlington Capital Partners, a $450 million private equity, acquired two top federal contractors, ITS Services in April 2003 and Science & Engineering Associates Inc. in January 2004. The firm combined the two, and named the new company Apogen Technologies, which provides "technology solutions" to the departments of Defense and the Homeland Security, as well as other branches of the government. Apogen ranks among the top 10 Department of Homeland Security contractors. http://www.publicintegrity.org/… In early August 2005 QinetiQ announced that it would acquire Apogen Technologies, Inc., pending regulatory approval. The QinetiQ website lists this merger as costing $288.0m (
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? > In February, Republicans voted through nearly $12 billion in cuts to > student assistance programs. President Bush’s most recent budget, for the > sixth straight year, leaves the maximum Pell Grant-the nation’s primary > grant assistance program – well below the $5,100 he promised while > campaigning for a second term. > These broken promises and cuts come at a time when the typical student > borrower graduates with $17,500 in loan debt. Interest rates on federal > student loans are being hiked this July by order of Bush’s "deficit > reduction" bill. Tuition at four year public colleges rose 40 percent since > 2001, and 200,000 students are unable to attend college at all this year > because of the costs. > You think education’s expensive? Try ignorance.
Hi, It is easier to control/manipulate dumb than smartee.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? In February, > Republicans voted through nearly $12 billion in cuts to > student assistance programs. President Bush’s most recent budget, for the > sixth straight year, leaves the maximum Pell Grant-the nation’s primary > grant assistance program – well below the $5,100 he promised while > campaigning for a second term. > These broken promises and cuts come at a time when the typical > student > borrower graduates with $17,500 in loan debt. Interest rates on federal > student loans are being hiked this July by order of Bush’s "deficit > reduction" bill. Tuition at four year public colleges rose 40 percent > since > 2001, and 200,000 students are unable to attend college at all this year > because of the costs. > You think education’s expensive? Try ignorance. > Hi, > It is easier to control/manipulate dumb than smartee.
That’s right. Plus we need poor ignorant people to take those low paying jobs at MacDonalds, Home Depots, Walmarts, etc. The system depends on most people being ignorant and powerless. Can’t have too many rich people – there wouldn’t be enough to go around then.
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> It is easier to control/manipulate dumb than smartee.
Cheney proves that every day.
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"> > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? quite simply education gives rise to an affluent middle class, and REALLY screws with the whole "have/have not" thing. It also keeps the dilitantes out of the old boys club
Response:
Ever meet or hear of a poor politician from either or any camp? Term limits are the key, no more career politicians….and they must live by the rules they make for the rest of us. Serve and get the "F" out!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "> > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? > quite simply education gives rise to an affluent middle class, and REALLY > screws with the whole "have/have not" thing. It also keeps the dilitantes > out of the old boys club
Response:
courageously avow: >Ever meet or hear of a poor politician from either or any camp? Term limits >are the key, no more career politicians….and they must live by the rules >they make for the rest of us. Serve and get the "F" out! > "> > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? > quite simply education gives rise to an affluent middle class, and REALLY > screws with the whole "have/have not" thing. It also keeps the dilitantes > out of the old boys club
Term limits aren’t the answer. You could tie the hands of someone who might actually be doing the job. What you need is a mechanism for the voters to launch a recall initiative when the dufus/dufette isn’t carrying out the people’s will and it has to be one that can be effectively used in a timely and straightforward way. On the other hand, a good old revolution is a good way to remind them who the fuck they’re supposed to be working for. Sidebar: Make treason a capital offense and easier to prove, hehehe… Ken Wilson
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I see what yer sayin about the people tossing recalls and such, that mechanism would be a monumental work, human nature would dictate no one ever stays in office more than 2 weeks…if that. Maybe if party’s were disbanded as well. Interesting human and political engineering program that would be. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > courageously avow: >Ever meet or hear of a poor politician from either or any camp? Term limits >are the key, no more career politicians….and they must live by the rules >they make for the rest of us. Serve and get the "F" out! >> "> > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? >> quite simply education gives rise to an affluent middle class, and REALLY >> screws with the whole "have/have not" thing. It also keeps the dilitantes >> out of the old boys club > Term limits aren’t the answer. You could tie the hands of someone who > might actually be doing the job. What you need is a mechanism for the > voters to launch a recall initiative when the dufus/dufette isn’t > carrying out the people’s will and it has to be one that can be > effectively used in a timely and straightforward way. On the other > hand, a good old revolution is a good way to remind them who the fuck > they’re supposed to be working for. > Sidebar: Make treason a capital offense and easier to prove, > hehehe… > Ken Wilson
Response:
> > Term limits aren’t the answer. You could tie the hands of someone who > might actually be doing the job. What you need is a mechanism for the > voters to launch a recall initiative when the dufus/dufette isn’t > carrying out the people’s will and it has to be one that can be > effectively used in a timely and straightforward way. On the other > hand, a good old revolution is a good way to remind them who the fuck > they’re supposed to be working for. > Sidebar: Make treason a capital offense and easier to prove, > hehehe… > Ken Wilson
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042306X.shtml Bill Moyers | A Time for Heresy . This is a time for heresy. American democracy is threatened by perversions of money, power, and religion. Money has bought our elections right out from under us. Power has turned government "of, by, and for the people" into the patron of privilege. And Christianity and Islam have been hijacked by fundamentalists who have made religion the language of power, the excuse for violence, and the alibi for empire. We must answer the principalities and powers that would force on America a stifling conformity. Either we make the heretical choices that will inspire us to renew our commitment to America’s deepest values and ideals, or the day will come when we will no longer recognize the country we love. Here’s what I mean. Two years ago, the American Political Science Association produced a study entitled Democracy in an Age of Rising Inequality . The report said people with wealth – privileged Americans – are "roaring with a clarity and consistency that public officials readily hear and routinely follow" while citizens "with lower or moderate incomes are speaking with a whisper." The study concluded that "progress toward realizing American ideals of democracy may have stalled, and even, in some places, reversed." The following year – 2005 – the editors of The Economist, one of the world’s most pro-capitalist publications, produced their own sobering analysis of what is happening in America. They found great and growing income disparities. Thirty years ago the average annual compensation of the top 100 chief executives was 30 times the pay of the average worker; today it is 1000 times the pay of the average worker. They found an education system "increasingly stratified by social class" in which poor children "attend schools with fewer resources than those of their richer contemporaries." They found our celebrated universities increasingly "reinforcing rather that reducing" these educational inequalities. They found American corporations no longer successful agents of upward mobility. It is now harder for people to start at the bottom and rise up the company hierarchy by dint of hard work and self-improvement. The editors of The Economist studied all this evidence and concluded – and I am quoting a pro-business magazine, remember – that the United States "risks calcifying into a European-style, class-based society." Let that sink in: The United States "risks calcifying into a European-style, class-based society." In 1960 I heard John F. Kennedy promise that "a rising tide lifts all boats." He was right then. He would be wrong today. Just this past weekend The Washington Post, in a lead editorial, called for a second look at the old belief "that anyone who works hard and plays by the rules can attain the American dream by sharing in the fruits of economic progress." As great wealth accumulated at the top, the rest of the country is not benefiting proportionally. Across the country working men and women are strained to cope with the rising cost of health care, pharmaceutical drugs, housing, higher education, and public transportation – all of which have risen faster than typical family income. The economist Robert J. Gordon, quoted in The Financial Times (another pro-business publication), says there has been "little long-term change in workers share of U.S. income over the past half century." The top ten percent of earners have captured almost half the total income gains and the top one percent has gained the most of all – more in fact, than all the bottom 50 percent. We are witnessing a marked turn of events for a nation whose DNA contains the inherent promise of an equal opportunity at "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." We were not supposed to be a country where the winners take all. The great progressive struggles in our history were waged to make sure ordinary citizens, and not just the rich, share in the benefits of a free society. Today, however, the majority of Americans may support such broad social goals as affordable medical coverage for all, decent wages for working people, safe working conditions, a good education for every child, and clean air and water, but there’s no government "of, by, and for the people" to deliver on those aspirations. America is no longer working for all Americans. How did this happen? By design. For a quarter of a century now a ferocious campaign has been conducted to dismantle the political institutions, the legal and statutory canons, and the intellectual, cultural, and religious frameworks that sustained America’s social contract. The corporate, political, and religious right converged in a movement that for a long time only they understood because they are its advocates, its architects, and its beneficiaries. Their economic strategy was to cut workforces and wages, scour the globe for even cheaper labor, and relieve investors of any responsibility for the cost of society. On the weekend before President Bush’s second inauguration, The New York Times described how his first round of tax cuts had already brought our tax code closer to a system under which income on wealth would not be taxed at all and public expenditures would be raised exclusively from salaries and wages. Their political strategy was to neutralize the independent media, create their own propaganda machine with a partisan press, and flood their coffers with rivers of money from those who stand to benefit from the transfer of public resources to elite control. Along the way they would burden the nation with structural deficits that will last until our children’s children are ready to retire, systematically stripping government of its capacity, over time, to do little more than wage war and reward privilege. Their religious strategy was to fuse ideology and theology into a worldview freed of the impurities of compromise, claim for America the status of God’s favored among nations (and therefore beyond political critique or challenge), and demonize their opponents as ungodly and immoral. At the intersection of these three strategies was money: Big Money. They found a deep flaw in our political system and zeroed in on it. Our elected officials need huge sums of money to finance their campaigns, especially to buy television. The average cost of running and winning a seat in the House of Representatives – the so-called "People’s House" – now tops one million dollars. The chairman of the Federal Election Commission said just this weekend that anyone who expects to run for the nomination for president – the nomination – in 2008 will need to have raised one hundred million dollars by the end of 2007. That money isn’t going to come from regular folks – less than one half of one percent of all Americans made a contribution of $200 or more to a federal candidate in 2004. No, the men and women who have mastered the money game have taken advantage of this fundamental weakness in our system – the high cost of campaigns – to sell democracy to the highest bidder. Some simple facts: The number of lobbyists registered to do business in Washington has more than doubled in the last five years. That’s 16,342 lobbyists in 2000 to 34,785 last year. Sixty-five lobbyists for every member of Congress. The total spent per month by special interests wining, dining, and seducing federal officials is now nearly $200 million. Per month. But it’s a small investment on the return. Just look at the most important legislation passed by Congress in the last decade. There was the energy bill that gave oil companies huge tax breaks at the same time that Exxon Mobil just posted $36 billion in profits in 2005, while our gasoline and home heating bills are at an all-time high. There was the bankruptcy "reform" bill written by credit card companies to make it harder for poor debtors to escape the burdens of divorce or medical catastrophe. There was the deregulation of the banking, securities, and insurance sectors, which led to rampant corporate malfeasance and greed and the destruction of the retirement plans of millions of small investors. There was the deregulation of the telecommunications sector which led to cable industry price-gouging and the abandonment of news coverage by the big media companies. There was the blocking of even the mildest attempt to prevent American corporations from dodging an estimated $50 billion in annual taxes by opening a P.O. box in an off-shore tax haven like Bermuda or the Cayman Islands. In every case these results were driven by the demands of Big Money in the form of campaign contributions and the cost of lobbying. And in every case, the religious right was cheering for the winners. You’ve heard about Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff, I’m sure. Let me tell you a little more than what you might have heard. Tom DeLay was a small businessman from Sugar Land, Texas, who ran a pest extermination business before he entered politics. He hated the government regulators who dared to tell him that some of the pesticides he used were dangerous – as, unfortunately, they were. DeLay got himself elected to the Texas legislature at a time the Republicans were becoming the majority in the once-solid Democratic south, and his … read more »
Response:
> Ever meet or hear of a poor politician from either or any camp? Term limits > are the key
Wrong. Public financing of elections and limits on campaign spending are the key. That’d even the playing field.
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Question:
I don’t know if you already know this. Funny. HOW TO SING THE BLUES 1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning." 2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, ‘less you stick something nasty in the next line, like " I got a good woman, with the meanest face in town." 3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes … sort of: "Got a good woman – with the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher – and she weigh 500 pound." 4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a ditch; ain’t no way out. 5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don’t travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft an’ state-sponsored motor pools ain’t even in the running. Walkin’ plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin’ to die. 6. Teenagers can’t sing the Blues. They ain’t fixin’ to die yet. Adults sing the Blues. In Blues, " adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis. 7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don’t get rain. 8. A man with male pattern baldness ain’t the blues. A woman with male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is. 9. You can’t have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster. 10. Good places for the Blues: a. highway b. jailhouse c. empty bed d. bottom of a whiskey glass Bad places: a. Ashrams b. gallery openings c. Ivy League institutions d. golf courses 11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. 12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if: a. you’re older than dirt b. you’re blind c. you shot a man in Memphis d. you can’t be satisfied No, if: a. you have all your teeth b. you were once blind but now can see c. the man in Memphis lived. d. you have a retirement plan or trust fund. 13. Blues is not a matter of color. It’s a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also got a leg up on the blues. 14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it’s the Blues. Other acceptable Blues beverages are: a. wine b. whiskey or bourbon c. muddy water d. black coffee The following are NOT Blues beverages: a. mixed drinks b. kosher wine c. Snapple d. sparkling water 15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it’s a Blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a broken down cot. You can’t have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or getting liposuction. 16. Some Blues names for women: a. Sadie b. Big Mama c. Bessie d. Fat River Dumpling 17. Some Blues names for men: a. Joe b. Willie c. Little Willie d. Big Willie 18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can’t sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis. 19. Make your own Blues name (starter kit): a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.) b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi,etc.) c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. (Well, maybe not "Kiwi.") 20. I don’t care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot sing the blues. You best destroy it. Fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, or get out a shotgun. I don’t care. Credits goes to Lame Mango Washington (attributed to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky, revisions by Little Blind Patti D. and Dr. Stevie Franklin)
Response:
Broke ma dick this mornin’ Up some fools ass He done got snakey own me So I packed his gas An these are his blues Oh lawd, that bitch he got the blues Gomer thought he was slick Now he run ‘roun wif half my dick Up hiz azz Ya I bent ma hog this mornin’ Up some fools ass He up an’went nasty own me So I packed his gas An these are his blues Oh lawd, that bitch he got the blues Gomer thought he was slick Now he run ‘roun wif half my dick Up hiz azz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > HOW TO SING THE BLUES > 1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning." > 2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, ‘less you > stick something nasty in the next line, like " I got a good woman, with > the meanest face in town." > 3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. > Then find something that rhymes … sort of: "Got a good woman – with > the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher – and she > weigh 500 pound." > 4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a > ditch; ain’t no way out. > 5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don’t > travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues > transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft > an’ state-sponsored motor pools ain’t even in the running. Walkin’ > plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin’ to die. > 6. Teenagers can’t sing the Blues. They ain’t fixin’ to die yet. Adults > sing the Blues. In Blues, " adulthood" means being old enough to get > the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis. > 7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place > in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. > Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the > Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don’t get rain. > 8. A man with male pattern baldness ain’t the blues. A woman with male > pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. > Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is. > 9. You can’t have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The > lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the > dumpster. > 10. Good places for the Blues: > a. highway > b. jailhouse > c. empty bed > d. bottom of a whiskey glass > Bad places: > a. Ashrams > b. gallery openings > c. Ivy League institutions > d. golf courses > 11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you > happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. > 12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if: > a. you’re older than dirt > b. you’re blind > c. you shot a man in Memphis > d. you can’t be satisfied > No, if: > a. you have all your teeth > b. you were once blind but now can see > c. the man in Memphis lived. > d. you have a retirement plan or trust fund. > 13. Blues is not a matter of color. It’s a matter of bad luck. Tiger > Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also > got a leg up on the blues. > 14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it’s the Blues. > Other acceptable Blues beverages are: > a. wine > b. whiskey or bourbon > c. muddy water > d. black coffee > The following are NOT Blues beverages: > a. mixed drinks > b. kosher wine > c. Snapple > d. sparkling water > 15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it’s a Blues > death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to > die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a > broken down cot. You can’t have a Blues death if you die during a > tennis match or getting liposuction. > 16. Some Blues names for women: > a. Sadie > b. Big Mama > c. Bessie > d. Fat River Dumpling > 17. Some Blues names for men: > a. Joe > b. Willie > c. Little Willie > d. Big Willie > 18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can’t > sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis. > 19. Make your own Blues name (starter kit): > a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.) > b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi,etc.) > c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) > For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. > (Well, maybe not "Kiwi.") > 20. I don’t care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot > sing the blues. You best destroy it. Fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, > or get out a shotgun. I don’t care. > Credits goes to Lame Mango Washington > (attributed to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky, > revisions by Little Blind Patti D. and Dr. Stevie Franklin)
Response:
I’ve seen at least parts of this. I don’t think I saw a version that’s this extended. I remember the part about how to make you own Blues name. Stateboro Blues (Allman Brothers version) comes instantly to my mind when reading the part about the essential elements of a Blues song. I need to get me a CD copy of their Lp "At Fillmore East". Great stuff by them on that Lp, and Dwayne’s sound and his playing were just amazing. Their cover of "One Way Out" on there is a classic. It’d almost be worth being in a band just to play some of those songs. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I don’t know if you already know this. >Funny. >HOW TO SING THE BLUES >1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning." >2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, ‘less you >stick something nasty in the next line, like " I got a good woman, with >the meanest face in town." >3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. >Then find something that rhymes … sort of: "Got a good woman – with >the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher – and she >weigh 500 pound." >4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a >ditch; ain’t no way out. >5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don’t >travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues >transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft >an’ state-sponsored motor pools ain’t even in the running. Walkin’ >plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin’ to die. >6. Teenagers can’t sing the Blues. They ain’t fixin’ to die yet. Adults >sing the Blues. In Blues, " adulthood" means being old enough to get >the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis. >7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place >in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. >Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the >Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don’t get rain. >8. A man with male pattern baldness ain’t the blues. A woman with male >pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. >Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is. >9. You can’t have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The >lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the >dumpster. >10. Good places for the Blues: >a. highway >b. jailhouse >c. empty bed >d. bottom of a whiskey glass >Bad places: >a. Ashrams >b. gallery openings >c. Ivy League institutions >d. golf courses >11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you >happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. >12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if: >a. you’re older than dirt >b. you’re blind >c. you shot a man in Memphis >d. you can’t be satisfied >No, if: >a. you have all your teeth >b. you were once blind but now can see >c. the man in Memphis lived. >d. you have a retirement plan or trust fund. >13. Blues is not a matter of color. It’s a matter of bad luck. Tiger >Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also >got a leg up on the blues. >14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it’s the Blues. >Other acceptable Blues beverages are: >a. wine >b. whiskey or bourbon >c. muddy water >d. black coffee >The following are NOT Blues beverages: >a. mixed drinks >b. kosher wine >c. Snapple >d. sparkling water >15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it’s a Blues >death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to >die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a >broken down cot. You can’t have a Blues death if you die during a >tennis match or getting liposuction. >16. Some Blues names for women: >a. Sadie >b. Big Mama >c. Bessie >d. Fat River Dumpling >17. Some Blues names for men: >a. Joe >b. Willie >c. Little Willie >d. Big Willie >18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can’t >sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis. >19. Make your own Blues name (starter kit): >a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.) >b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi,etc.) >c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) >For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. >(Well, maybe not "Kiwi.") >20. I don’t care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot >sing the blues. You best destroy it. Fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, >or get out a shotgun. I don’t care. >Credits goes to Lame Mango Washington >(attributed to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky, >revisions by Little Blind Patti D. and Dr. Stevie Franklin)
– That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman. –Head of Careers Advisory Board
Response:
I still have my "Live at Fillmore" — 8Track .. frozen in time, likely on Whipping Post between tracks 2 and 3 … Dickie Betts on Stormy Monday rates up there in top 5 or 7 all times greatest guitar solos … along with Jessica, Watchtower by Jimi. I have a Best Of ABB CD in the truck .. never too far away for when the radio dwells to boring .
Response:
>I still have my "Live at Fillmore" — 8Track .. frozen in time, >likely on Whipping Post between tracks 2 and 3 … >Dickie Betts on Stormy Monday rates up there >in top 5 or 7 all times greatest guitar solos … along >with Jessica, Watchtower by Jimi.
I never followed the band closely enough to know which ABB Lp is which. In fact, I even had to go to the B&N website to find out that "At Fillmore East" is the name of the one I have on vinyl, that actually belongs to… the missing drummer >I have a Best Of ABB CD in the truck .. never too far >away for when the radio dwells to boring .
All I have is a copy of a copy of an ABB CD that someone gave me. It’s recent enough to have Derek Trucks on slide. I can’t remember what it’s called. One of my favorite tracks on it is them covering the Stones’ "Heart of Stone". But I do need to buy some of their albums on CD. That "At Fillmore East" is one I want. I don’t know much about the rest. I mostly want to get albums where Dwayne was still around. Pete — That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman. –Head of Careers Advisory Board
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First time I read this. It’s great, but I just realize I can’t sing the blues. Wish I would have know this a few months ago before I started my blues lessons. I bet someone can some up with a funnier one about How to Sing Rock and Roll. >11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you > happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it.
Reminds me of an old Chucky Berry interview where he claims that he invented the duck walk to hide some wrinkles in his suit. But I guess he doesn’t sing the blues anyways.
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> First time I read this. It’s great, but I just realize I can’t sing > the blues. Wish I would have know this a few months ago before I > started my blues lessons. I bet someone can some up with a funnier one > about How to Sing Rock and Roll. >11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you > happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. > Reminds me of an old Chucky Berry interview where he claims that he > invented the duck walk to hide some wrinkles in his suit. But I guess > he doesn’t sing the blues anyways.
And your typing doesn’t rock. Stay lurked.
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>First time I read this. It’s great, but I just realize I can’t sing >the blues. Wish I would have know this a few months ago before I >started my blues lessons. I bet someone can some up with a funnier one >about How to Sing Rock and Roll. >11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you > happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. >Reminds me of an old Chucky Berry interview where he claims that he >invented the duck walk to hide some wrinkles in his suit. But I guess >he doesn’t sing the blues anyways.
Word is that they sent him back to Memphis because he was too Country. Pete — That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman. –Head of Careers Advisory Board
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > All I have is a copy of a copy of an ABB CD that someone gave me. It’s > recent enough to have Derek Trucks on slide. I can’t remember what > it’s called. One of my favorite tracks on it is them covering the > Stones’ "Heart of Stone". > But I do need to buy some of their albums on CD. > That "At Fillmore East" is one I want. I don’t know much about the > rest. I mostly want to get albums where Dwayne was still around. > Pete > — > That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman. > –Head of Careers Advisory Board
But mostly Petemeat, _you_ should play and post it as a link instead of perma-playing lame-O rabbit farter at others in AGA. That filthy fat frog up in Denver sure provided you, Stalky, TD, PMG, DGD, Lupi, O’Turd, & Dougy Trustifarian with a badddddddddd influence MVM http://www.geocities.com/mvm55555 
Mark Huber (King Kock) converted a .cda (from CD’s I sent him) to one .mp3 and uplinked this for me, which was good of him. I can’t be bothered to purchase whatever conversion app he used, but I’ve got dozens of tunes far better than this one. Plink on and try to man-up like an independent thinker. FoxNews Alert. .
Response:
> Claudio quoted: … > 8. A man with male pattern baldness ain’t the blues. A woman with male > pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. > Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is.
… This is soooo not true. It depends on what happens because of the baldness. If yo baby done lef you cuz of it, or the poleese done bust you coz you look just like some bald guy what shot a man in Memphis, you got the blues.
Response:
… > Stateboro Blues (Allman Brothers version) comes instantly to my mind > when reading the part about the essential elements of a Blues song.
Whipping Post and One Way Out jump to my mind, and maybe Black Hearted Woman, with Statesboro Blues coming in fourth.
Response:
>… > Stateboro Blues (Allman Brothers version) comes instantly to my mind > when reading the part about the essential elements of a Blues song. >Whipping Post and One Way Out jump to my mind, >and maybe Black Hearted Woman, with Statesboro >Blues coming in fourth.
I love Whipping Post! That’s definitely a great Allman Brothers tune. Somewhere I have Zappa doing a cover of Whipping Post. Nothing demented (that I noticed) but it was probably a nod to the Allman Brother’s great arrangement. Hey Miles, your being a Mountain fan and all, this is what you need instead of a Strat!: http://lasttelecaster.home.comcast.net/Dillion/Dillion58JrFront.jpg http://lasttelecaster.home.comcast.net/Dillion/Dillion58JrBack.jpg Oh wait….. this isn’t the Fender thread. Never mind. Pete — That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman. –Head of Careers Advisory Board
Response:
Question:
>I had the same problem as your father. I received book royalties that >pushed me over the top. I don’t know of any way to delay the income. >It is a lesson to those of us who took our SS at age 62. The lesson is >"don’t". In fact, delay to age 70 if possible.
There is no one correct answer for everyone. Delaying SS until 70 for me would cost me. $140,000 in lost SS payments. I would have to live to nearly 80 to make up the difference even if I could support myself and wife with out SS at 62. Thumper
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> How do you get paid from the LLC? Is it earned income or dividends? > Have you explored a SEP IRA? Some of that can be shielded there I > believe. > Thumper
We get paid thru monthly ‘payouts’. Basically, we just agree to keep a minimum amount of money in the checking account at the end of each month and then write checks to each of us. We don’t get a salary nor do we get wages. I’ll look to see if a SEP IRA will be applicable here.
Response:
I had the same problem as your father. I received book royalties that pushed me over the top. I don’t know of any way to delay the income. It is a lesson to those of us who took our SS at age 62. The lesson is "don’t". In fact, delay to age 70 if possible.
Response:
>I had the same problem as your father. I received book royalties that >pushed me over the top. I don’t know of any way to delay the income. >It is a lesson to those of us who took our SS at age 62. The lesson is >"don’t". In fact, delay to age 70 if possible.
Or, don’t work. I realize some have psychological problems if they don’t work, but I’m not among that number myself.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Right Rita. People try to get too clever. He’ll be paying 50% on the >> amount in excess of 12,000. Even if he could give up SS he would >> probably lose more money that way. Would you have 1/2 of your SS or >> none? >> Thumper > Actually, i meant to say he is a partner (with me and two others) in an > LLC, not that it makes much of a difference in this topic from being > self-employed. I guess the best we can do is pay all our bills early to > lower our profit. You’re right, 1/2 of the SS is better than none. ><G>
How do you get paid from the LLC? Is it earned income or dividends? Have you explored a SEP IRA? Some of that can be shielded there I believe. Thumper
Response:
> Right Rita. People try to get too clever. He’ll be paying 50% on the > amount in excess of 12,000. Even if he could give up SS he would > probably lose more money that way. Would you have 1/2 of your SS or > none? > Thumper
Actually, i meant to say he is a partner (with me and two others) in an LLC, not that it makes much of a difference in this topic from being self-employed. I guess the best we can do is pay all our bills early to lower our profit. You’re right, 1/2 of the SS is better than none.
Response:
> Right Rita. People try to get too clever. He’ll be paying 50% on the > amount in excess of 12,000. Even if he could give up SS he would > probably lose more money that way. Would you have 1/2 of your SS or > none? > Thumper > Actually, i meant to say he is a partner (with me and two others) in an > LLC, not that it makes much of a difference in this topic from being > self-employed. I guess the best we can do is pay all our bills early to > lower our profit. You’re right, 1/2 of the SS is better than none.
<G>
Response:
>>My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is >likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free >limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he >earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). >Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he >hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? >Thanks, >Mike >If he opted for SS at age 62, he’s in and that’s it.
Right Rita. People try to get too clever. He’ll be paying 50% on the amount in excess of 12,000. Even if he could give up SS he would probably lose more money that way. Would you have 1/2 of your SS or none? Thumper
Response:
>My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is >likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free >limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he >earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). >Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he >hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? >Thanks, >Mike
What for? Getting the half pay is better than none. Thumper
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is > likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free > limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he > earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). > Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he > hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? > Thanks, > Mike >If you are talking about 2006, surely he can find some business equipment >that he really wants that fits under the 100% expensable in the year >purchased category that would put him under the limit. Heck, buy a >$12,000.00 widget by paying $100.00 down and financing the rest. He writes >off 12 grand even though he only laid out $100.00. Do that until he hits 65 >and then sell the equip at a writeable loss or just keep on keepin on.
Not unless he is running a business. If he lies about it and gets caught, he’ll end up paying a lot more. Thumper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Many smart people say this to their kids. "To hell with college, learn the >IRS code" It’s much cheaper and a hell of a lots more profitable!!!
Response:
My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? Thanks, Mike
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> My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is > likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free > limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he > earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). > Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he > hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? > Thanks, > Mike
If you are talking about 2006, surely he can find some business equipment that he really wants that fits under the 100% expensable in the year purchased category that would put him under the limit. Heck, buy a $12,000.00 widget by paying $100.00 down and financing the rest. He writes off 12 grand even though he only laid out $100.00. Do that until he hits 65 and then sell the equip at a writeable loss or just keep on keepin on. Many smart people say this to their kids. "To hell with college, learn the IRS code" It’s much cheaper and a hell of a lots more profitable!!! — What this country needs is a government in which there are two four year term limits for everybody, no contributions of any kind to anyone that the contributor can NOT vote for, no retirement plan for politicians and no taxpayer money to anyone that has not voted in 3 of the past 4 elections and no taxpayer funded grants to anyone, only loans that must be paid back at the private sector rate of interest. And I submit to you that it is YOUR fault for not insisting that we have such a system. Criticism is easy and takes no intelligence at all. Offerring a valid, different solution takes brains. J. C.
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Question:
While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. Lard Valve Sucks
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> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? > Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. > Lard Valve Sucks
Something tells me he’ll be back. But….he has been awfully quite for a loooong time, hasn’t he? I’d like to think he’s laying low for a while, hoping that things improve for his heros is D.C. It really sucks when you stand up for someone….and they turn out to be even worse than people first accused! I mean, with all the crap coming out of Washington….every single DAY, more dirt comes out. The media can’t even keep up with it all!! Hilrarious! (in a very sad sort of way, that is.) I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. On one hand, I’m glad people are starting to see what’s been going on. On the other hand….when people realize…..well, you know. That’s the sad part. Not a good feeling to realize you’ve been raped….several times. Maybe LV is getting therapy to cope with it all…… Mike
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You mean have "NOT" seen the Fart Valve posting, right? Maybe the senile sap died already, heh? Back to you, Ka-Bonger…
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I saw a short piece on the news – "Rescue teams forklifted a huge, nearly comatose amp tech from his Denver home. The unnamed tech was found in a pile of Hostess Ho-Ho wrappers, pie plates, pork chop bones, and – of course – Diet Pepsi cans. The already-oversized front door had to be widened further to make way for the forklift. Mysteriously, the floors had been previously reinforced. "Walls were plastered with posters of Rush Limbaugh, George W. Bush, Bill o’Reilly, and Ann Coulter. ‘Jeez – looks like the home of a serial killer,’ one EMT remarked." The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
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Mr William ‘Willie’ Whittaker passed away on November 7th. Cause of death: Suffocating in a pile of his own bullshit.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I saw a short piece on the news – > "Rescue teams forklifted a huge, nearly comatose amp > tech from his Denver home. The unnamed tech was > found in a pile of Hostess Ho-Ho wrappers, pie plates, > pork chop bones, and – of course – Diet Pepsi cans. > The already-oversized front door had to be widened > further to make way for the forklift. Mysteriously, the > floors had been previously reinforced. > "Walls were plastered with posters of Rush Limbaugh, > George W. Bush, Bill o’Reilly, and Ann Coulter. ‘Jeez – > looks like the home of a serial killer,’ one EMT remarked." > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Despite the fact every one of those images is a direct steal from moi, you get points for having attempted creativity. At Ease.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I saw a short piece on the news – > "Rescue teams forklifted a huge, nearly comatose amp > tech from his Denver home. The unnamed tech was > found in a pile of Hostess Ho-Ho wrappers, pie plates, > pork chop bones, and – of course – Diet Pepsi cans. > The already-oversized front door had to be widened > further to make way for the forklift. Mysteriously, the > floors had been previously reinforced. > "Walls were plastered with posters of Rush Limbaugh, > George W. Bush, Bill o’Reilly, and Ann Coulter. ‘Jeez – > looks like the home of a serial killer,’ one EMT remarked." > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/ >Despite the fact every one of those images is a direct steal from >moi, you get points for having attempted creativity. At Ease.
Now that Lard Vulva has gone silent, if only momentarily, perhaps Marc will stop patting himself loudly on the back while attempting a solo rimjob, if only momentarily. Hey, don’t laugh, it could happen — then again, maybe not…. Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? > Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. > Lard Valve Sucks
See how, like a recently released prisoner begins to get itchy for the buggering he was forcibly dealt on the inside, this subjekt begins to crave that which he professes to abhor. Diagnose: Pathetisch. Dr. F.
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> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? > Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. > Lard Valve Sucks
He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production devices. Google it. John
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>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >NOS vs. new production devices.
Not in his opinion :-) The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
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>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >NOS vs. new production devices. >Not in his opinion :-) >The Repair Guy >http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Enough it appears he’s gone away to pout. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas, Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, Max Floater and the rest of the Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE) and, at his own request, Lars Overshank (aka ‘The Cowardly Lion’) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/
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>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >NOS vs. new production devices. >Not in his opinion :-)
Shoot — "in his opinion" he’s ten feet tall and bulletproof, but that doesn’t make it so. Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >NOS vs. new production devices. > Not in his opinion :-) > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
And that’s fine. We all go off our keel sometimes. I’m cutting a little slack here because we all know the NOS devices were more robust. But the current production models are gaining some ground in that regard. John
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>>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >>NOS vs. new production devices. >Not in his opinion :-) >Enough it appears he’s gone away to pout.
Ah, there’ll be some reason. Yngwie’s band probably stopped for some of Lady Valve’s cookies, and to have their Marshalls rebuilt. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
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>>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >>NOS vs. new production devices. > Not in his opinion :-) >And that’s fine. We all go off our keel sometimes.
And if we’d all admit it, it might be a more civilized world… >I’m cutting a little slack here because we all >know the NOS devices were more robust. But >the current production models are gaining some >ground in that regard.
I have no opinion. I haven’t played enough tube amps to hear subtleties. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? > Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. > Lard Valve Sucks > He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production > devices. > Google it. > John
doubt THAT would keep him away.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? >> Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. >> Lard Valve Sucks > He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production > devices. > Google it. > John > doubt THAT would keep him away.
Yes, I doubt it is any one thing. There were a few irons in the fire and when all combined the result could be just enough. One never knows how things will come together to shape one’s decisions. John
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >>>NOS vs. new production devices. >>Not in his opinion :-) >And that’s fine. We all go off our keel sometimes. > And if we’d all admit it, it might be a more > civilized world… >I’m cutting a little slack here because we all >know the NOS devices were more robust. But >the current production models are gaining some >ground in that regard. > I have no opinion. I haven’t played enough tube > amps to hear subtleties. > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
By "robust", I was referring to the plate voltage. As was pointed out by one poster, the voltages used on the NOS devices were far below what they were capable of handling. The NOS tubes were just beginning to take notice, as it were. At the same time, if decent voltages used by the NOS tubes were applied to the newer devices, you might get catastrophic results. Sparks and smoke and flames. Oh my! John
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? >>> Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. >>> Lard Valve Sucks >> He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production >> devices. >> Google it. >> John > doubt THAT would keep him away. > Yes, I doubt it is any one thing. There were a few irons in the fire and > when all combined the result could be just enough. One never knows how > things will come together to shape one’s decisions. > John
Ke-riste..! ! Suddenly, Ed is back with 7th grade insight… someone else thinks LV "took a paisting" (???)… Sheesh..! ! ! Me thinks he showed that *regular amps* using *regular* settings sound VERY similar using just about any of todays *good* currently made tubes. Rich K. posted that NOS is *capable* of much more, which is certainly true… but how many "players" are out there pushing their amps into the MAXIMUM envelope of capability…??? In the final analysis… Rich was correct… and LV was also correct… Ummm… I see an analogy coming… (!?!?!) as in… if you need an engine for a ‘63 Vette, you get the CORRECT engine for the job… but, if you have a CAMRY/HONDA/BUICK… there are LOTS of engines that have the *power* to do the trick. Same with tubes… as far as Rich K. is concerned… (this is my opinion of Rich’s point-of-view, and my onpinion only..) If I wanted an amp to be *tweaked* to maximum available "anything"… I wouldn’t hesitate to take it to Rich to get the job done. If I needed *design* consulting for a tube amp, I’d go to Rich as well… But… if I need power tubes for a Reverend/Fender/Marshall/Etc… that is set-up within relatively *standard* parameters, I suspect that LV could provide non-NOS tubes that would fill the bill. Or, at least his ‘test’ shows that in this circumstance, non-NOS tubes are more than adequate. Lastly, unlike many other wankers in this NG… LV is a "player" of some repute (as are many others on AGA), and… as he has said before, was putting together a band and getting "back into the music biz". Well… *DUH*..! ! ! ! I figure he’s finally found a bass player and is spending his free time rehearsing/recording/*doing* music instead of rattling the cages of usual suspects on the AGA. So… while Blum talks of ‘lighting farts’… (that’s about as mature as Ed gets..) and Timepax yammers on lying this way and that to try his best to "win" some minor point, LV is most likely adding ‘a real gigging band’ to his current resume. I think I’ll call him and see what’s doing…. I need some parts anyway… maybe a spkr, or eight, or sixteen as well… (!!!!!) gtski
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? >>>> Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. >>>> Lard Valve Sucks >>> He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production >>> devices. >>> Google it. >>> John >> doubt THAT would keep him away. > Yes, I doubt it is any one thing. There were a few irons in the fire and > when all combined the result could be just enough. One never knows how > things will come together to shape one’s decisions. > John > Ke-riste..! ! > Suddenly, Ed is back with 7th grade insight… someone else thinks LV > "took a paisting" (???)… Sheesh..! ! ! Me thinks he showed that > *regular amps* using *regular* settings sound VERY similar using just > about any of todays *good* currently made tubes. Rich K. posted that > NOS is *capable* of much more, which is certainly true… but how > many "players" are out there pushing their amps into the MAXIMUM > envelope of capability…??? In the final analysis… Rich was > correct… and LV was also correct… > Ummm… I see an analogy coming… (!?!?!) as in… if you need an > engine for a ‘63 Vette, you get the CORRECT engine for the job… but, > if you have a CAMRY/HONDA/BUICK… there are LOTS of engines that > have the *power* to do the trick. > Same with tubes… as far as Rich K. is concerned… (this is my > opinion of Rich’s point-of-view, and my onpinion only..) If I wanted > an amp to be *tweaked* to maximum available "anything"… I wouldn’t > hesitate to take it to Rich to get the job done. If I needed *design* > consulting for a tube amp, I’d go to Rich as well… > But… if I need power tubes for a Reverend/Fender/Marshall/Etc… > that is set-up within relatively *standard* parameters, I suspect that > LV could provide non-NOS tubes that would fill the bill. Or, at least > his ‘test’ shows that in this circumstance, non-NOS tubes are more > than adequate. > Lastly, unlike many other wankers in this NG… LV is a "player" of > some repute (as are many others on AGA), and… as he has said before, > was putting together a band and getting "back into the music biz". > Well… *DUH*..! ! ! ! I figure he’s finally found a bass player and > is spending his free time rehearsing/recording/*doing* music instead > of rattling the cages of usual suspects on the AGA. > So… while Blum talks of ‘lighting farts’… (that’s about as mature > as Ed gets..) and Timepax yammers on lying this way and that to try > his best to "win" some minor point, LV is most likely adding ‘a real > gigging band’ to his current resume. > I think I’ll call him and see what’s doing…. I need some parts > anyway… maybe a spkr, or eight, or sixteen as well… (!!!!!) > gtski
Find out what you can about Derek’s role in the upcoming EC world tour while you’re at it. I’ve heard the band lineup will be quite a departure from the last one. The european dates are already on sale. Rumor has it that LV also got an offer to do some recording with Derek and Susan when they finish getting their studio set up. My parts order ships Monday. Jeff
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >>>> NOS vs. new production devices. >>> Not in his opinion :-) >> And that’s fine. We all go off our keel sometimes. > And if we’d all admit it, it might be a more > civilized world… >> I’m cutting a little slack here because we all know the NOS devices >> were more robust. But the current production models are gaining some >> ground in that regard. > I have no opinion. I haven’t played enough tube > amps to hear subtleties. > The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/ > By "robust", I was referring to the plate voltage. As was pointed out by > one poster, the voltages used on the NOS devices were far below what > they were capable of handling. The NOS tubes were just beginning to take > notice, as it were. At the same time, if decent voltages used by the NOS > tubes were applied to the newer devices, you might get catastrophic > results. Sparks and smoke and flames. Oh my! > John
Perhaps limiting the test to "in a given STOCK amp, will the performance be similar?" would have made more sense than trying to say the new product is equivalent in every way to the NOS.
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To: Champion debaters, wordsmiths, intellectuals (actual or self professed), et al. May I offer: Never shallowly discount Lord Willy, "the" resident logodaedalian of alt.guitar.amps. Moreover: LV is as staunch of the embodiment of an American as – any. Read into. PS, the cat is a pure sack full’a soul, if, per chance, you have been too errant to notice. ’nuff said…
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> To: Champion debaters, wordsmiths, intellectuals (actual or self > professed), et al. > May I offer: Never shallowly discount Lord Willy, "the" resident > logodaedalian of alt.guitar.amps. > Moreover: LV is as staunch of the embodiment of an American as – any. > Read into. > PS, the cat is a pure sack full’a soul, if, per chance, you have been > too errant to notice. > ’nuff said…
Mem Shannon’s Ode to Denver’s William the Wad & AGA ‘Pals’ From the CD "I’m From Phunkville" Cut #12 3:52 _Ignant__Stick_ It might be made of wood–it might be made of steel It’s gonna hurt like hell and take a long time to heal Somebody gonna hit you with an ignant stick For trying to pull some stuff like this Somebody gonna hit you upside your head Better keep your promise an do like you said Big man you better leave good people alone They doin bad enough on their own You better stop treating good people bad You gonna have a whole lotta stuff on your hands Hey you Mr. politician You better stop abusing your position And you Mr. boss man You better honor your retirement plan Keep track of all your lies You gonna wind up with a big surprise It may be man or it may be God You gonna fall down awfully hard
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> PS, the cat is a pure sack
A pure sack indeed…
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did courageously avow: >To: Champion debaters, wordsmiths, intellectuals (actual or self >professed), et al. >May I offer: Never shallowly discount Lord Willy, "the" resident >logodaedalian of alt.guitar.amps. >Moreover: LV is as staunch of the embodiment of an American as – any. >Read into. >PS, the cat is a pure sack full’a soul, if, per chance, you have been >too errant to notice. >’nuff said…
LV is no better than a bushel sack of the worst offal mother nature has ever been known to produce. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas, Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, Max Floater and the rest of the Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE) and, at his own request, Lars Overshank (aka ‘The Cowardly Lion’) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/
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Question:
Are you surprised? Dubya has to ensure his retirement plan is watertight (pun intended).
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> The very first thing George W. Bush did in response to Hurricane > Katrina was to offer a helping hand
Question:
On this 4th of July weekend, we all need to consider the Red Star rising in the East which is becoming not only an economic, but also a military threat to the Western world. And we need to consider that Wal-Mart relies very much on Chinese imports to stock their shelves with cheap, both in price and quality, goods. So, out of a sense of patriotism this 4th of July weekend, I would encourage you to avoid shopping at Wal-Mart or, if you must, do not purchase AND goods from Wal-Mart or any other store which are made, manufactured, or otherwise procurred from, Chinese sources. I know this may mean that some of you may have to go barefoot this weekend, cause it’s nearly impossible to find reasonable priced shoes that are NOT made in China, but offer it up as penance for your greed in being a part of the reason that the USA has lost so many manufacturing jobs to China, Mexico, and other third world countries and is fast become a singularly service-oriented company who’s primary cultural export to the remainer of the world is rap music.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > On this 4th of July weekend, we all need to consider the Red Star rising in > the East which is becoming not only an economic, but also a military threat > to the Western world. And we need to consider that Wal-Mart relies very much > on Chinese imports to stock their shelves with cheap, both in price and > quality, goods. So, out of a sense of patriotism this 4th of July weekend, I > would encourage you to avoid shopping at Wal-Mart or, if you must, do not > purchase AND goods from Wal-Mart or any other store which are made, > manufactured, or otherwise procurred from, Chinese sources. I know this may > mean that some of you may have to go barefoot this weekend, cause it’s > nearly impossible to find reasonable priced shoes that are NOT made in > China, but offer it up as penance for your greed in being a part of the > reason that the USA has lost so many manufacturing jobs to China, Mexico, > and other third world countries and is fast become a singularly > service-oriented company who’s primary cultural export to the remainer of > the world is rap music.
Avoid Wal-Mart during the 4th of July weekend out of a sense patriotism? Fuck that! A patriot should avoid Wal-Mart. Period! Why focus on the offshoring of manufacturing jobs? The broader effects of offshoring will be appearing in homes near you soon.
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> Why focus on the offshoring of manufacturing jobs? The broader effects > of offshoring will be appearing in homes near you soon.
It already has. But despite what the leftists want you to believe it’s probably had much more of a positive impact than negative.
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For the record, 80% of the stock in Wal-Mart is made in China – 80%! What ahppened to Sam Walton’s "promise" to only buy American made goods? Well, it morphed into we buy American when we can and then more informally, we wouldn’t buy American if we had to. Then again, we – the US (and to a lesser extent, Japan) – have turned China ito the world’s manufacturing plant. Additionally, no matter where you go, Target, K-Mart, etc, it’s difficult to buy even a charcoal grill that’s not made in China (Webers may still US made, but I’m not sure). So, when you buy those US flags to wave or display at your house or those red, white ‘n blue coffee mugs or flag-covered t-shirts from A&N, rest assured that you are most likely getting a Chinese (or Indonesian) made product. Greg
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > On this 4th of July weekend, we all need to consider the Red Star rising in > the East which is becoming not only an economic, but also a military threat > to the Western world. And we need to consider that Wal-Mart relies very much > on Chinese imports to stock their shelves with cheap, both in price and > quality, goods. So, out of a sense of patriotism this 4th of July weekend, I > would encourage you to avoid shopping at Wal-Mart or, if you must, do not > purchase AND goods from Wal-Mart or any other store which are made, > manufactured, or otherwise procurred from, Chinese sources. I know this may > mean that some of you may have to go barefoot this weekend, cause it’s > nearly impossible to find reasonable priced shoes that are NOT made in > China, but offer it up as penance for your greed in being a part of the > reason that the USA has lost so many manufacturing jobs to China, Mexico, > and other third world countries and is fast become a singularly > service-oriented company who’s primary cultural export to the remainer of > the world is rap music.
Why Wal Mart? Why not nearly ALL US companies who CHOSE to get their products produced cheaply because they could make MORE profit this way. Change the government in your country if you want change… The amount of VERY wealthy people keeps growing as does the wealth of the government. It’s normal people who are screwed. Change the politics. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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For those inclined to take a more critical look at what/all that is going on around them in these Very Interesting Times. http://www.fallacyfiles.org/index.html http://datanation.com/fallacies/ http://www.adamsmith.org/logicalfallacies/ Start with, "red herring." Americans sold out Americans… for the Buck. The Closed Lock Loops in place that made sure Americans were, "all right," abandoned by…. Americans. Inculcation of False Logic patterns, the greatest tool of corporate/gubmint powers that be, for any agenda, all agendas. Millions live and breathe such now, ingrained.
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I can’t disagree with the idea, as suggested in your posting. But, may I present a bit of irony, at least the way it exists in my area? I’m located in the midwest…Illinois…in which one of the main industries is agriculture. We have many rural/farming communities. My city, while not "tiny", is still very much tied to ag-business. Most of the small towns that surround *my* city could be described as "flag wavin’ supporters of GWB." My city, is an island of "blue" in the middle of the sea of "red." We’re the home of a major university….so, no real surprise there, eh? (grin) So, here’s the irony, if you will…. Why, when you go to Wal-mart–in my city, you see an ocean of "W ‘04" bumper stickers, along with the flags on windows and other patriotic stuff. I would say most of it is clearly in support of W, etc. (I have honestly commented on this to friends.) In fact, the former drummer in my own band…a big time W supporter…replied to my question of "how can you shop there, when they get all their stuff from China?" like this, "F*ck that, I go where the bargains are." Spoken like a *true* American. (yet the man rides a Harley, and criticizes "rice burners.") In my city, it’s the *liberals* who protest buying goods made in China and other countries who abuse their labor forces. You see the "protests" and literature, all over town, but especially in and around the campus area. Seems like we "liberals" have got it all wrong, at least according to our *local* chapter of busheviks!! Or….do we?!?!?! You might want to think about that. I would suggest that many whom you call "liberal", as if it’s a dirty word, are not so "unpatriotic", as you seem to think. And to me…even more important, proves the hypocrisy of many bushevik "patriots." Mike
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Bust the unions…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On this 4th of July weekend, we all need to consider the Red Star rising > in > the East which is becoming not only an economic, but also a military > threat > to the Western world. And we need to consider that Wal-Mart relies very > much > on Chinese imports to stock their shelves with cheap, both in price and > quality, goods. So, out of a sense of patriotism this 4th of July > weekend, I > would encourage you to avoid shopping at Wal-Mart or, if you must, do > not > purchase AND goods from Wal-Mart or any other store which are made, > manufactured, or otherwise procurred from, Chinese sources. I know this > may > mean that some of you may have to go barefoot this weekend, cause it’s > nearly impossible to find reasonable priced shoes that are NOT made in > China, but offer it up as penance for your greed in being a part of the > reason that the USA has lost so many manufacturing jobs to China, Mexico, > and other third world countries and is fast become a singularly > service-oriented company who’s primary cultural export to the remainer of > the world is rap music. > Why Wal Mart? > Why not nearly ALL US companies who CHOSE to get their products produced > cheaply because they could make MORE profit this way. > Change the government in your country if you want change… > The amount of VERY wealthy people keeps growing as does the wealth of the > government. > It’s normal people who are screwed. > Change the politics.
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Where are you getting you figures? Do you have any evidence of this? Or is this more banter to try and destroy a fine organization that Sam Walton (an American to the core) built from his blood, sweat and tears? I though that what Mr. Walton did epitomized the American dream. It seems, though, that once something is built very well and highly sucessful, people want to destroy it. Jeleousy and anger towards those who won’t give you an undeserved, overpaid and underworked job??? Go work for an auto union. No he did not belive in unions. Anyone who understands economics doesn’t either. Unions are not good for the economy. But, he did believe in taking care of the employees and he did. Walmart had one of the finest set of corporate HR policies and procedures around. But, the unioinists wanted to destroy that, to take something that doesn’t belong to them. People have to ealize that it is not economically nor morally sound to create a career at menial jobs. Why should a cashier without an education, training or any level of personal or corporate loyalty make $18/hr? I say get off you lazy F$%&ing ass and work for a living, not take from an organization that helps your economy. Did you know that every car GM produces $1500 goes towards the employee retirement fund? And that there are uion employes making 6 figures (not including bonuses and benefit package) and working less than 500 hours per year? Well, no wonder 25000 people are losing their jobs at one company alone. Why do many retailers look at foreign products? a) better quality, b) cheaper, c) not posible to get the same product at the same price locally d) obviously better financial sense. If you can’t get a similar produc for about the same as you can by shipping it from 8000 miles away, then there’s not a problem with the company, but with the system that creates this imbalance. This is simple: balance employee wages. Destroy unions and make minimum wage $10/hr. Beyond that make the government responsible for policing their own labour laws. This is a huge chunk of what we pay them for. Remember that the majority of the corporate Western world has realized that if employees are well taken care of, they produce. But, if they force benefits via strikes and unreasonable demands, employee costs go through the roof to the point of destroying the company itself. And, productivity goes down, worker morale goes down, employee satisfaction goes down, sick time goes through the roof, average time on the job drops from 1950 hours per year to less than half of that (equals about 3 hour per day of productivity) and the quality of what is being produced goes through the floor. An example is the computer industry vs the auto industry. The computer industry produces well and has a higher average salary than the auto industry. How can this be if industry cannot be self-regulating and only the companies make money? Well, they have realized the power of the employee in simple profit making. The auto industry employees, however, make less money and never hav any oportunity for personal/professional growth. This is stifling and creates a psychological condition whereby the employee becomes frustrated and takes this frustration out on the company. Stop bashing the company the supports YOUR economy. If Wal-Mart were to close tomorrow, how many people would be out of work? What would be the total and net ecomonic effects on a micro level? On a macro level? The cascading effects? Think before you speak. Go ahead and bit the hands that feed you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For the record, 80% of the stock in Wal-Mart is made in China – 80%! > What ahppened to Sam Walton’s "promise" to only buy American made > goods? Well, it morphed into we buy American when we can and then more > informally, we wouldn’t buy American if we had to. Then again, we – the > US (and to a lesser extent, Japan) – have turned China ito the world’s > manufacturing plant. > Additionally, no matter where you go, Target, K-Mart, etc, it’s > difficult to buy even a charcoal grill that’s not made in China (Webers > may still US made, but I’m not sure). > So, when you buy those US flags to wave or display at your house or > those red, white ‘n blue coffee mugs or flag-covered t-shirts from A&N, > rest assured that you are most likely getting a Chinese (or Indonesian) > made product. > Greg
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Figures come from recent article posted on MSNBC’s site. Sam Walton would be rolling in his grave if he knew about this! Greg
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> It already has. But despite what the leftists want you to believe it’s > probably had much more of a positive impact than negative.
Funny, xenophobia is usually a right-wing thing…
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> is this more banter to try and destroy a fine organization that Sam > Walton built from his blood, sweat and tears?
The blood, seat and tars of his employees you mean. > No he did not belive in unions.
Of course he didn’t. He’d have had to pay decent wages and provide decent benefits if his shops were unionized. > Unions are not good for the economy
Unions are great for the economy and they’re great for workers. You can thank unions for the 40 hour work week. You can thank a union if you’ve ever – had employer provided health insurance – received overtime – had a paid vacation – had a retirement plan – had disability insurance – received the benefits of being a member of a credit union – needed unemployment insurance > Did you know that every car GM produces $1500 goes towards > the employee retirement fund?
Did you know that every car produced in the United States by Toyota, Mercedes, BMW and (soon) Hyundai is subsidized to the tune of at least $1000 by the taxpayers of the states in which the plants are located?
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Get your facts straight. You can thank unions for the rate of inflation and the cost of health care, cars and many other big ticket items whose final cost represents 60 labour. You can thank the government and auto companies for employee benefits, the 40 hour work week and a host of other labour-related issue, not unions. If you actually had an education you would know this. You can thank the unions for the denegration of education as you no longer need a decent education to get riduculous wages. There is no way the a dishwasher deserves $18/hr. Why would someone go to school when the union will give you everything on a silver platter. Sam Walton built Wal-mart, not the employees. Remember the place of employees: they are hired help, not the ones to dictate how a company is to be run. This grossly arrogant and out of place. If you knew trhe slightest about business, you would realize that it is the owner who does the most work, is the only one to take any risks, is the one who puts up the money, and the one who provides the jobs. Why should employees gain ALL the benefits. The greatest cause of business closure currently is directly related to employee issues, not owner issues. Unions should be made illegal, especially because the they come out of the mafia. The concept of the union is a racket, a shake-down, black-mail. In any other situation it would be called extortion.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> is this more banter to try and destroy a fine organization that Sam > Walton built from his blood, sweat and tears? > The blood, seat and tars of his employees you mean. > No he did not belive in unions. > Of course he didn’t. He’d have had to pay decent wages and provide > decent benefits if his shops were unionized. > Unions are not good for the economy > Unions are great for the economy and they’re great for workers. > You can thank unions for the 40 hour work week. > You can thank a union if you’ve ever > – had employer provided health insurance > – received overtime > – had a paid vacation > – had a retirement plan > – had disability insurance > – received the benefits of being a member of a credit union > – needed unemployment insurance > Did you know that every car GM produces $1500 goes towards > the employee retirement fund? > Did you know that every car produced in the United States by Toyota, > Mercedes, BMW and (soon) Hyundai is subsidized to the tune of at least > $1000 by the taxpayers of the states in which the plants are located?
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Well said… The term "liberal" has become derrogatory in the hands of the conservatives. Yet these are the ones who consistantly prove themselves to be hypocrates. They have the worst social programs, the least economic resposibility (Bush has the largest budget in history to fund an illegal war where 9 billion has gone "missing" and no investigation will take place, amonst other things…hmmm…), the least respect for the democratic process, etc. If the US is for the people by the people, then why not have less military spending for action if foreign countries and more domestic health care? Why spend so much to kill foreigners and make a few corporate sharholders extrememly rich? Why not try to save a few lives? I’m Canadian and, in Canada, we look out for one another. We place human life over the machine of war. We think less of ourselves and more of others; we are NOT "self-centred". This is why we have the most stable economy and highest standard of living in the world: we don’t waste the majority of our money on war with other countries based on a hypcritical ideal that is not even supported, nor adhered to by the very people making the war in the first place. We also have a low rate of suicide, heart disease and other stress-related disorders. We live longer with a very enriched quality of living. BTW: the US really doesn’t have a strong left. Democrats are actually slightly right of centre. So the question becomes: how far right are you? Are you a moderate or a fascist?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I can’t disagree with the idea, as suggested in your posting. But, may I >present a bit of irony, at least the way it exists in my area? > I’m located in the midwest…Illinois…in which one of the main > industries is agriculture. We have many rural/farming communities. My > city, while not "tiny", is still very much tied to ag-business. > Most of the small towns that surround *my* city could be described as > "flag wavin’ supporters of GWB." > My city, is an island of "blue" in the middle of the sea of "red." We’re > the home of a major university….so, no real surprise there, eh? (grin) > So, here’s the irony, if you will…. > Why, when you go to Wal-mart–in my city, you see an ocean of "W ‘04" > bumper stickers, along with the flags on windows and other patriotic > stuff. I would say most of it is clearly in support of W, etc. (I have > honestly commented on this to friends.) > In fact, the former drummer in my own band…a big time W > supporter…replied to my question of "how can you shop there, when they > get all their stuff from China?" like this, "F*ck that, I go where the > bargains are." Spoken like a *true* American. > (yet the man rides a Harley, and criticizes "rice burners.") > In my city, it’s the *liberals* who protest buying goods made in China and > other countries who abuse their labor forces. You see the "protests" and > literature, all over town, but especially in and around the campus area. > Seems like we "liberals" have got it all wrong, at least according to our > *local* chapter of busheviks!! > Or….do we?!?!?! > You might want to think about that. I would suggest that many whom you > call "liberal", as if it’s a dirty word, are not so "unpatriotic", as you > seem to think. > And to me…even more important, proves the hypocrisy of many bushevik > "patriots." > Mike
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From the way that you write, I bet that you barely graduated from high school. Your grammar is outright atrocious, and your knowledge of the labor movement is seriously lacking. As one who holds undergraduate and graduate-level degrees in computer science, I know the industry very well. If you have not read lately, salaries are plummeting due to offshore outsourcing to India, and people are leaving the field in droves. Furthermore, computer-related salaries are not based on a forty-hour week. I have worked at places where sixty hours a week was the norm. Most software development organizations are little more than modern day sweatshops.
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> On this 4th of July weekend, we all need to consider the Red Star rising > in > the East which is becoming not only an economic
No we dont. Move along cross-posting Troll. Rob
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>> It already has. But despite what the leftists want you to believe it’s >probably had much more of a positive impact than negative. > Funny, xenophobia is usually a right-wing thing…
Usually. Now everybody can get in on it. Exciting! — Les Cargill
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> From the way that you write, I bet that you barely graduated from high > school. Your grammar is outright atrocious, and your knowledge of the labor > movement is seriously lacking. > As one who holds undergraduate and graduate-level degrees in computer > science, I know the industry very well. If you have not read lately, > salaries are plummeting due to offshore outsourcing to India,
That’s beyond arguable. At least in any hard-data sense, pay has pretty much topped out about the pre-1999 level. You can’t expect employment to re-rise to 1999 levels. Nobody’s throwing money at it. The outsourcing is yet another bubble. > and people are > leaving the field in droves.
Sorry, it was flooded. There was a gold rush, then it popped. Bummer. Around 1980, programmers made around $12 an hour, or so. Low paid skilled labor rates. > Furthermore, computer-related salaries are > not based on a forty-hour week. I have worked at places where sixty hours > a week was the norm. Most software development organizations are little > more than modern day sweatshops.
If professional certifcation ( like a bar exam ) was made the standard, there’d be even fewer employed. If it’s a sweatshop, vote with your feet, or do what you have to to fix it. But so long as it’s macho to brag about hours worked, it’ll be a problem. How about forcing your employer to publish real metrics, instead of "Office Space" ones? Think about how to do this, and do it. — Les Cargill
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True….so true. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > BTW: the US really doesn’t have a strong left. Democrats are actually > slightly right of centre. So the question becomes: how far right are you? > Are you a moderate or a fascist?
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>>is this more banter to try and destroy a fine organization that Sam >Walton built from his blood, sweat and tears? > The blood, seat and tars of his employees you mean.
His, too. You have no idea. Sam’s employees who stayed through from the IPO until retirement got *extremely* well. Sam whipped a little Okie/Arkie thrift-think on people, and it took. If you think WalMart is doing anything except adapting to a very fast-changing reality, think again. hey, fifty years ago it was Sears. Fifty, or even twenty years on, it’ll be somebody else. This being said, those who invest in China better keep the cash flow up, because you *own nothing* there. >No he did not belive in unions. > Of course he didn’t. He’d have had to pay decent wages and provide > decent benefits if his shops were unionized.
Nope. Guess again. It’s common in the "fly over states" for people to not be interested in unions. They are viewed as carpetbaggers. >Unions are not good for the economy > Unions are great for the economy and they’re great for workers.
They can be. They can be-not, too. > You can thank unions for the 40 hour work week.
Mostly, although govt. employee work rules helped, too. But it’s well known now that 40 is a good round productive figure. It also harkens to the post-Depression period, when people thought having somebody else employed was a better idea than 20 or so hours more a week in pay. > You can thank a union if you’ve ever > – had employer provided health insurance > – received overtime > – had a paid vacation > – had a retirement plan > – had disability insurance > – received the benefits of being a member of a credit union > – needed unemployment insurance
You can mostly thank the gummint. After WWII, there was general wage freeze on, to keep the rapid demand for workers from driving costs up. Those things all developed as perks, in an environment where competition for workers was hot and salaries frozen. Unions had an effect, between 1900 and say, 1950/60, but they’ve mostly acheived their goals, and will continue to find it harder to justify their existence. But tort lawyers helped even more. Could things regress? I don’t know. Doubt it. >Did you know that every car GM produces $1500 goes towards >the employee retirement fund? > Did you know that every car produced in the United States by Toyota, > Mercedes, BMW and (soon) Hyundai is subsidized to the tune of at least > $1000 by the taxpayers of the states in which the plants are located?
But the total return in wages, taxes and other money far exceeds the kilodollar. The car industries are a swamp of subsidies – that’s why the damned things cost so much. — Les Cargill
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It seems like some people need to get out more. And the rest of us need to start making better use of our email/newsgroup filters.
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> Figures come from recent article posted on MSNBC’s site. <
Such a credible source as well.
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> Get your facts straight.
I did. You didn’t. > You can thank the government and auto companies > for employee benefits, the 40 hour work week and a host of other > labour-related issue, not unions.
There you go. Presenting the wrong "facts." Again. > Sam Walton built Wal-mart, not the employees.
So he staffed all those store all by himself? That must have been the reason for his death… Overwork. > Remember the place of employees
The "place"? In your world they’re nothing but chattle. How 19th century of you. > The greatest cause of business closure currently is directly > related to employee issues, not owner issues.
Bullshit. > Unions should be made illegal, especially because the they come out of the > mafia.
The Mafia? You probably believe that "The War Of The Worlds" is a documentary.
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> Well said… > The term "liberal" has become derrogatory in the hands of the conservatives.<
Especially when today’s liberals seem to fit the description of fascists and communists. They just don’t know it. They also spam groups with bullshit like this. I guess they thought this group was alt.guitar.offtopicpointlessbullshit. or alt.guitar.beadumbasscrossposter
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> I’m Canadian and, in Canada, we look out for one another. We place human > life over the machine of war.<
No shit. How convenient when you share the same land mass as the U.S.
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Question:
Social Security is a national pension plan that was quickly subverted, later revised again and again, into a system that takes your money and redistributes it in an unfair progressive manner, so those who contribute more, get less proportionally. The new Republican plan will make it even more unfair. Worst of all, this is a system where wage earners alone support a welfare and disability program that should be funded by general taxation. Corporations and rich coupon-clippers pay nothing to guarantee SSI, Medicare, or minimum Social Security payments. When will we start to march for real issues like this? www.socialsecurityplan.org
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It is better to save the program now than do it later, when it will be much more painful. The smarter as well as more moral in the Dim Party would take over the Social Security issue, which they and their dependent electorate would own, on essentially their terms, and get as much tax increases as possible, the "best" deal they could get to save the program. Then (ironically, by giving away tax increases on Social Security first), they would be ready to work with the GOP on the much bigger and much worse Medicare and Medicaid. (Do they want to "get rid of profit" to save costs, even though a forced change to all-public medicine "at cost" would mean a 20-25+ year lost-profits compensation cost up front, unless the Dims were not only low-life thieves, but wanted to trash the Constitution even more than they enjoy doing routinely now?)
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You try to avoid auto accidents, and there are still many who have never had one. Social Security is not insurance. In fact, its still-primary of its many welfare functions, which is often the only function discussed, preventing poverty among the elderly, if viewed intelligently and dispassionately, should be addressed directly and honestly as an old-age program. The onset of old age now is 77 years. The equivalent of age 65 in 1940, which was an arbitrary figure even then, is obsolete now, and has no credibility as a claim by resentful losers who resist modernization, now is age 72 or 73. Raising the retirement age to only age 70 is still generous and offers to pay people more than that to which they could ever honestly be claimed to deserve.
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Blah blah blah lie lie lie lie….
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I hope you realize that by cutting out who you were responding to, none of us knows who this message is meant to be a reply to.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been consistently correct, your false statements and occasional > BRAYing to the contrary and even here, not correctly, notwithstanding.
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> It’s not insurance. You’re given the payments when you get old, which > you cannot avoid (even if some try to avoid or postpone it, sometimes > in silly ways).
Interesting point. If you are "forced" to buy insurance, is it insurance, or a tax. Even in the case of auto insurance, where the State "requires" you to have insurance on your car, are they "forcing" you to have insurance? Because it seems to me that even when the State says you "must" have auto insurance when you operate your car, there are some who do not comply. On the other hand, you have no choice but to comply when it comes to Social Security, if you are employed by someone.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > If the law were to read "income from all sources", and there were > > a cutoff at some reasonable gross figure, that would get the job > done. > Not likely to happen. First because we vote, and second becuase the > powers > to be, "think" we need all the help we can get. and thirdly because > there > are wa whole lot of people who are not seniors who agree that we need > all > the help we can get….part of the misinformation they are fed by the > media > I guess. > There will be more retirees relative to taxpayers in the years to > come. There will be a desire for tax increases, not only cost > reductions (though the latter is what should be heavily favored). This > may involve changes to the federal income tax (as well as higher income > taxes, if we play the scummy "general revenue" game) as well as to the > payroll tax. For example, in the case of the payroll tax, all employee > compensation should be taxable, which includes stock options, and which > also — note — includes the value of employee benefits in addition to > formal wages. This means, yes, employer-provided health insurance as > well as other benefits are part of compensation and should become > taxable. (Is this what the greedy geezers and geezers-to-be are > anticipating?)
Taxing stock options does not seem fair at all, regardless of your ideological bias. For example, my wife has a small stock option in a company that she worked for, but it will never be exercized simply because the price to buy the stock is higher than the current stock is worth. And you want to tax her for a benefit that she will never use? Besides, let us for the sake of discussion say that you tax the stock option are part of income, then by definition, when I excercize such an option, are you proposing an additional tax on the "gain"? And why should all employee benefits be subject to taxation. After all, a large number of people never get the benefit of those offerings. I think of something like health insurance. I almost never made us of my healthy insurance during my working career, and you want to tax me, for a "benefit" that I have never used, and never did use? What percentage of the working population does not take advanatage of the healthcare insurnace provided to them, and what percentage would end up paying more in taxes then what they use in their healthcare benefit. And what about those companies that provide retirement benefits…do you want to tax that also, as the benefits are accrued? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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If anyone out there wants to pay in, along with their employer, more than $100,000 over their lifetime of working, and they don’t want any of that money back, they can send the payment every month to their favorite charity. This nonsense about insurance is a smokescreen. The government wants to take your money, pay you back less than you paid, and then convince you that they are moral and ethical. Social Security has one of the worst returns on investment of any country, because we march for everything but what’s important. Travel through the trailer parks and wave to the folks living on Social Security, then ask what they think. Then, you will find it harder to be so aloof, arrogant and disconnected from the real world. www.socialsecurityplan.org
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Spoken like a true idiot! >Social security has never been an insurance program. Insurance is a >pooling of risks and costs for events one does not want to happen and >that one avoids. One cannot avoid growing older. Social Security >always has been a welfare program, the usual lies of the Left >notwithstanding as usual. >Social Security to some extent and other kinds of welfare, even more, >has been the equivalent of fire "insurance" that will offer people new >homes and even rewards people for risky lifestyle choices.
Unfortunatelyt, while Simpson is usually WRONG on everything he says, he happens to be right on this issue, or at least HALF of it. If you access the Social Security Web site, you get a complete history of Social Security which outlines its development from various plans from a variety of sources over time. As such, its development really reflects the changing attitudes and needs of people as society became more complex from both a social and technological point. But I digress. Social Security termed itself ‘Social Insurance" at its onset, as it grew out of that concept, in vogue, at the time. However, names can be deceiving, as Simpson attempts to point out. A better description would be to define something by how it behaves. Simpson points out how insurance is supposed to behave, indemnifying someone against some physical risk, and since Social Security does NOT behave in that manner, should not properly be termed insurance. Adherents for defining it as insurance claim the indemnification is against the risk of poverty in old age, however, that is very broad based, and not a specific physical risk, as would be required by insurance. Under that broadening of the definition, EVERY retirement plan could be defined as insurance, which they clearly are NOT. Simpson, however, continues his rant about Social Security being welfare, and it you review the article, this too is discussed, and we clearly see that Simpson’s erroneous beliefs notwithstanding, Social Security can hardly be termed welfare. A fundamental difference between welfare and Social Security is that welfare is funded from the tax levy and recipients do not contribute to a specific fund from which they draw. Add to that eligibility requirements and you have major distinctions between welfare and Social Security, or Social Insurance, if you prefer to use the misnomer. Alan
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > In article >Social security has never been an insurance program. Insurance is a >pooling of risks and costs for events one does not want to happen and >that one avoids. One cannot avoid growing older. Social Security >always has been a welfare program, the usual lies of the Left >notwithstanding as usual. > Social security is a great insurance program that is there in the > event of disability and loss of a wage earner.
Social Security is NOT an insurance program, any more than any other pension plan is an insurance program. Alan
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> > If the law were to read "income from all sources", and there were > a cutoff at some reasonable gross figure, that would get the job
done. > Not likely to happen. First because we vote, and second becuase the powers > to be, "think" we need all the help we can get. and thirdly because there > are wa whole lot of people who are not seniors who agree that we need all > the help we can get….part of the misinformation they are fed by the media > I guess.
There will be more retirees relative to taxpayers in the years to come. There will be a desire for tax increases, not only cost reductions (though the latter is what should be heavily favored). This may involve changes to the federal income tax (as well as higher income taxes, if we play the scummy "general revenue" game) as well as to the payroll tax. For example, in the case of the payroll tax, all employee compensation should be taxable, which includes stock options, and which also — note — includes the value of employee benefits in addition to formal wages. This means, yes, employer-provided health insurance as well as other benefits are part of compensation and should become taxable. (Is this what the greedy geezers and geezers-to-be are anticipating?) Taxing dividends is legitimate for personal income taxes as long as they are made fully deductible business expenses. It’s an interesting thought about ending the tax exemption for government bonds. By being tax exempt, they are offered at lower rates, which means governments can "cheat" in order to lower their borrowing costs. Making bond income taxable would mean the rates would have to be much higher, which actually is a good thing: it discourages excessive and frivolous borrowing by all governments and it forces them to compete fairly with the private sector when they do borrow. As to what other taxes will be added to the income tax, there’s always the shifting game that can be done with the estate tax, ending the estate tax and re-defining inheritances as income for taxation purposes, and the class warriors (even those too dumb to understand that their own institutions such as unions are holders of equities) would impose things such as an equity turnover or equity transfer tax as new taxes rather than broad-based consumption taxes, and so on. An interesting sidelight to disability and other unfortunate events would be something the more outrageous pro-deadbeat Dims who held out against bankruptcy (and bankruptcy abuse) reform might do — insist on some kind of "disability" payment for those who were encumbered with bankruptcy and had resulting financial difficulties, as well as those who wanted bankruptcy and then "needed" new financial "disability" payments to repay what they owe, which they previously were able to, and expected to, avoid. (No, it wouldn’t pass — too many halfway-sane Dims would join the GOP against it, but it’s an amusing thought experiment.)
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I’ve been consistently correct, your false statements and occasional BRAYing to the contrary and even here, not correctly, notwithstanding.
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It’s not insurance. You’re given the payments when you get old, which you cannot avoid (even if some try to avoid or postpone it, sometimes in silly ways). What it does do, which most welfare programs do not, is involve not only the poor. Smarter lefties want universality not necessarily because so many of them are collectivists and radical egalitarians, but because they know that most people have weak human nature and when enjoying the benefits, may become hooked, even dependent, upon them (a type of moral hazard). The best way for lefties to get support for a program is to make it universal, or failing that, make it something that many taxpayers would find attractive, that they would resent not benefiting from themselves, and it’s then an easy step "forward" to make them beneficiaries as well. For example, the ideal "pincer" strategy for incrementalism toward getting Medicare for all citizens (or in the Democrats’ case, non-citizens; they vote Democratic, too) is an age-related-dependent "pincer" of including children, next, as well as the elderly, under Medicare. From there it’s a simple matter of getting many taxpayers, who have trouble meeting their medical expenses themselves, to be convinced to want to benefit from Medicare, too. (A separate, and in its own way interesting, incrementalist strategy is the "big gulp" of having Medicare absorb Medicaid. Popular desire for making all people beneficiaries of Medicare could then be increased by having large businesses end their own private retiree health care benefits, which make no sense, anyway, to do for people not working for those businesses.) Reducing the overgrowth of benefits as some propose and Bush is considering is long overdue but is resisted and shows the great extent to which people are so hooked on this welfare program, Social Security, that they are unrealistic as well as have an immature attitude toward it. For this reason, the fears among some extreme leftists that this will be the beginning of the end of universality and people will opt out of the program that are even more badly mistreated by the program than already (the program is very distributionist, heavily in favor of low-income, low-tax-paying people, who have the money of others taken and given to them far in excess of what they have paid in Social Security taxes, over their retirements.) First of all, they cannot opt out without federal government acquiescence and a change in legislation. Second, even in the US culture, superior to that of Europe when it comes to providing for one’s own retirement, there are many careless or otherwise failed people who will not be able to finance their own retirements, as the culture says they should. Hence, this program is not going away and participation in it will continue to be "mandatorily volunteered." In a particularly severe financial future there is nothing wrong with ending Social Security, give to people a lump sum at the normal retirement age corresponding to all their tax payments with compounded interest at a rate low enough to correspond to being provided by the federal government (very low risk), wishing them well, and having those elderly who end up being poor apply for the 1960s-onward special "targeted" welfare instead. We are not going to do this (nor will we expand Social Security into a guaranteed minimum income for all, not only the elderly, with "family allowance" payments for children; we cannot afford this), but it is perfectly legitimate to constrain costs, which will be necessary in the future, and one legitimate place to do this is in the over-growth of benefits beyond the change in the cost of living. Bush has guts and also has the facts as well as justice on his side, no matter what the leftist liars say. (An additional change long needed is raising the retirement age into the seventies, which the most childish and unrealistic in this country also reject and resent the most.)
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article >>Social security has never been an insurance program. Insurance is a >>pooling of risks and costs for events one does not want to happen and >>that one avoids. One cannot avoid growing older. Social Security >>always has been a welfare program, the usual lies of the Left >>notwithstanding as usual. > Social security is a great insurance program that is there in the > event of disability and loss of a wage earner. > Social Security is NOT an insurance program, any more than any other > pension plan is an insurance program. > Alan
We were aged 3 – 14 when we started collecting. They cut off our pensions a 22. How about that? — http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1351244.htm http://sfgate.com/cgi- bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/04/29/national/a130837D16.DTL http://tinyurl.com/cf2u5 | Society’s Disasterous Decisions http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/diamond03/diamond_index.html
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It’s not just simply a welfare system that Bush is proposing. It’s a welfare system that’s paid for by the working class. Bush’s idea of utopia is for the working class to pay for welfare costs while people like him who were born rich lay back and collect tax free dividends, for instance.
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Spoken like a true idiot! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Social security has never been an insurance program. Insurance is a >pooling of risks and costs for events one does not want to happen and >that one avoids. One cannot avoid growing older. Social Security >always has been a welfare program, the usual lies of the Left >notwithstanding as usual. >Social Security to some extent and other kinds of welfare, even more, >has been the equivalent of fire "insurance" that will offer people new >homes and even rewards people for risky lifestyle choices.
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> Try looking at your Social Security payments as though they’ve been > insurance premiums, like insurance on your car, or fire insurance on your > home. Insurance distributes the risk across many premium-payers, and NONE > OF THEM WANTS TO COLLECT!!! Health insurance is a fine comparison. If a > retiree is financially and physically healthy, he gets neither SS$$ nor > heart surgery. If he needs either, it’s there for him. Social Security > should be insuring us against future financial problems – and we should > never want to qualify for it, any more than we would want to qualify for a > bypass.
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Auto/Life insurance is indeed what I call a reverse bet. But the odds are that you will get into an auto accident some time in your life, and you certainly will die someday. Health insurance on the other hand is something that does not require you to have a serious problem to take advantage of. All it takes is some minor event, like a cold to make use of, or some minor emergency. But the problem with health issues, is not the minor medical needs you or I may have, but the major needs you and I may have. In that sense it is a reverse bet, i.e. we are betting we will need that care, and of course the policy makers and those who pay the bills are hoping we never have a need for that major need. Of course, if you are like me, who has never had any major medical problems, until my heart attack, up to then I rarely had to use the system. Of course having said that, had I died from one of my heart attacks, before seeking medical attention, I would have saved the system a whole lot of money. > Financially-comfortable retirees generally enjoy PASSIVE income from real > estate, equities, or other investments, which does not count against SS$$. > Implementation of this idea requires the changing of only a few words in > the law. If the law were to read "income from all sources", and there were > a cutoff at some reasonable gross figure, that would get the job done. > There will certainly be cheats – someone making a bit over the trigger > point will shift some income to another person, etc. etc. But overall, > cost of funding the system will be reduced, and the system will operate > more in line with its original purpose, as a safety net.
Not likely to happen. First because we vote, and second becuase the powers to be, "think" we need all the help we can get. and thirdly because there are wa whole lot of people who are not seniors who agree that we need all the help we can get….part of the misinformation they are fed by the media I guess.
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Even Slack Walleye knew and admitted that Social Security could not handle the onslaught of baby boomers retiring. Clinton proposed fixing Social Security in ‘98: http://tinyurl.com/66fhj
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>Financially-comfortable retirees generally enjoy PASSIVE income from real >estate, equities, or other investments, which does not count against SS$$. >Implementation of this idea requires the changing of only a few words in the >law. If the law were to read "income from all sources", and there were a
What you want to do is turn Social Security into a welfare program. That dog doesn’t hunt. Veterans, and Americans in general, should not be penalized for putting money aside in investments and other assets to supplement Social Security retirement income when that day arrives. SSA was NEVER designed as a sole retirement plan, it was meant to help supplement your pensions, investment income, etc. What you are proposing is nothing but a welfare system, and that dog doesn’t hunt. Rodger
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You pay 6.2% of your wages and so does your employer for an insurance policy in case you become poor? I have read some stupid comments on this board before, but this is the lamest altrustic drivel yet. www.socialsecurityplan.org
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Hey USMC Wannabe……. still got your dick in the dirt???
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> You pay 6.2% of your wages and so does your employer for an insurance > policy in case you become poor? > I have read some stupid comments on this board before, but this is the > lamest altrustic drivel yet. > www.socialsecurityplan.org
I would prefer the employer give me that 6.2% and I would put it in my own retirement fund.
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Social security has never been an insurance program. Insurance is a pooling of risks and costs for events one does not want to happen and that one avoids. One cannot avoid growing older. Social Security always has been a welfare program, the usual lies of the Left notwithstanding as usual. Social Security to some extent and other kinds of welfare, even more, has been the equivalent of fire "insurance" that will offer people new homes and even rewards people for risky lifestyle choices.
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In article > Social security has never been an insurance program. Insurance is a > pooling of risks and costs for events one does not want to happen and > that one avoids. One cannot avoid growing older. Social Security > always has been a welfare program, the usual lies of the Left > notwithstanding as usual.
Social security is a great insurance program that is there in the event of disability and loss of a wage earner. — http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1351244.htm http:// www.jerseygop.com/RepublicanBabes38.html http://tinyurl.com/cf2u5 http://webcast.ucsd.edu:8080/ramgen/UCSD_TV/9278.rm | Societies Disasterous Decisions http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/diamond03/diamond_index.html
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Try looking at your Social Security payments as though they’ve been insurance premiums, like insurance on your car, or fire insurance on your home. Insurance distributes the risk across many premium-payers, and NONE OF THEM WANTS TO COLLECT!!! Health insurance is a fine comparison. If a retiree is financially and physically healthy, he gets neither SS$$ nor heart surgery. If he needs either, it’s there for him. Social Security should be insuring us against future financial problems – and we should never want to qualify for it, any more than we would want to qualify for a bypass. Financially-comfortable retirees generally enjoy PASSIVE income from real estate, equities, or other investments, which does not count against SS$$. Implementation of this idea requires the changing of only a few words in the law. If the law were to read "income from all sources", and there were a cutoff at some reasonable gross figure, that would get the job done. There will certainly be cheats – someone making a bit over the trigger point will shift some income to another person, etc. etc. But overall, cost of funding the system will be reduced, and the system will operate more in line with its original purpose, as a safety net. Surely I’m not the first person to think of this — somewhere there must be an advocacy group. Ike E1>O5 USMC/ret
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Question:
Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, just hype. Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal network against Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as Rush’s ratings soared. A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s flagship WABC in New York had been setting records. In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its best rating ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s WLIB, saw its ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the O’Franken Factor." (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05)
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York > All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, just hype. > Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal network > against > Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as Rush’s > ratings > soared. > A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s flagship > WABC > in New York had been setting records. > In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its best rating > ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. > During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s WLIB, saw > its > ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. > The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the O’Franken > Factor." > (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05)
Can you imagine listening not only to that arrogant Socialist idiot Franken, but then having to endure that screeching bitch Garafolo as his sidekick? God, you could use her voice to strip wallpaper. When was the last time you ever saw the bi-polar she-devil actually WORK as a "comedian"? Might be because she’s not funny, she’s pathetic.
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> A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s flagship > WABC > in New York had been setting records.
Against what, or whom? Captain Oxycontin might beat other radio "blab fests", but his numbers are nowhere near miraculous. In fact, talk radio is the most over-rated red herring in American media. Why don’t you look up Howard Stern’s numbers in New York? Or anywhere else he is heard. Those are staggering.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York > All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, just hype. > Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal network against > Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as Rush’s ratings > soared. > A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s flagship WABC > in New York had been setting records. > In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its best rating > ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. > During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s WLIB, saw its > ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. > The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the O’Franken > Factor." > (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05)
Ha! Your timing regarding this post is spectacular. Your hero releases his completely fucked up budget that (as right wingers just love) gives poor people the finger as usual and you choose to pick the flies out of horseshit with this completely insubstantial (and as usual, misleading) asswipe of a post. Looks like the mighty righties are on the run.
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Overall ratings mean nothing in the radio business, which is all about the advertisers’ favor demographics — and it’s really no surprise that someone who’s been around for a decade and a half on on of the most powerful AM outlets in the country would edge out an upstart network in business for less than a year whose flagship station’s signal doesn’t reach nearly as far into the surrounding suburbs. The real surprise is that there’s a contest at all — that fact that there is should be an embarrassment to Brush Lintball and WABC. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York >All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, just hype. >Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal network against >Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as Rush’s ratings >soared. >A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s flagship WABC >in New York had been setting records. >In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its best rating >ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. >During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s WLIB, saw its >ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. >The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the O’Franken >Factor." >(From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05)
Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York > All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, just hype. > Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal network > against > Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as Rush’s > ratings > soared. > A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s flagship > WABC > in New York had been setting records. > In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its best rating > ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. > During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s WLIB, saw > its > ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. > The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the O’Franken > Factor." > (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05) >Can you imagine listening not only to that arrogant Socialist idiot Franken,
Franken is a devout capitalist — some of his friends call him "Al Franken Incorporated" because of his many business ventures. >but then having to endure that screeching bitch Garafolo as his sidekick?
Garofolo is not on Franken’s show — his "sidekick" is a veteran radio journalist named Katherine Lanpher. >God, you could use her voice to strip wallpaper.
Actually, her speaking voice is quite pleasant — but of course you’ve never really heard her talk, have you? I didn’t think so….. >When was the last time you >ever saw the bi-polar she-devil actually WORK as a "comedian"?
She’s more of a character actress than a comedian, but she still does stand- up when her movie and radio commitments allow. She recently took two weeks off from her radio show to do a movie on the west coast >Might be >because she’s not funny, she’s pathetic.
How would you know, given that you obviously don’t even know who she is or what she does? Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html
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>Overall ratings mean nothing >in the radio business, which >is all about the advertisers’ >favor demographics —
Not entirely true…ratings are broken down into numbers that allow stations to get a rough idea of how many listeners they have at any given hour. In various market sizes, these numbers provide the basis for what they charge for commercial time. And, since that is their life blood, ratings become *very* important to them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->and >it’s really no surprise that >someone who’s been around >for a decade and a half on >on of the most powerful AM >outlets in the country would >edge out an upstart network >in business for less than a >year whose flagship station’s >signal doesn’t reach nearly >as far into the surrounding >suburbs. The real surprise >is that there’s a contest at >all — that fact that there >is should be an embarrassment >to Brush Lintball and WABC.
You’re dead on target with that statement. But let me add that ratings fluctuate up and down, all the time. That is completely normal, regardless of the competition. This is *especially* true for AM stations, and in particular, stations who are not "clear channel" (no, not the company of that name!). Many AM stations must reduce power in the evenings, based on local sunset. If you’re one of the "lucky" ones, your ratings fall off during the fall and winter months. (sunset moves earlier in the evening, which means you reduce power earlier in the day, and you lose your over-all listener count.) It would be just as interesting to see the "record ratings" figures for Rush. 1.4 and 1.2 is *not bad* in a market that size, if you’re talking total market share. I’d also like to see the AQH numbers for *both* programs. That’s the only *real* way to see how many people are listening. Finally, AM radio is not very popular, anyway. Numbers have been falling there, for years. If you look around at other AM ratings, it’s not unusual to see market shares close to the low to mid 1’s. Remember….you’re comparing the AM’s with the FM’s, and the distance is huge. Let’s look at AM’s only, within the range or coverage area’s and see what the numbers say. And, what about in similar demographics? Otherwise, you can spin ratings to say whatever you want, to serve your needs. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York >All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, just hype. >Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal network against >Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as Rush’s ratings >soared. >A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s flagship WABC >in New York had been setting records. >In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its best rating >ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. >During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s WLIB, saw its >ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. >The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the O’Franken >Factor." >(From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05) > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >-=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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Franken is a devout capitalist — some of his friends call him "Al Franken Incorporated" because of his many business ventures. >><BR><BR> And he supports our troops in Iraq by making them laugh on his USO tours to war zones. When did Limbaugh ever do that?
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> http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html
Looks like I nailed it- old Lard Vulva is posting even more trivial tripe cause he knows what a load of shit Bush’s new budget is. I hope you have your retirement planning in order, Lardass. You better hope that solid state amps don’t catch on and wipe out your tube business. Bob
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>Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York
Shit floats.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York > All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, just > hype. > Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal network > against > Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as Rush’s > ratings > soared. > A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s > flagship WABC > in New York had been setting records. > In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its best > rating > ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. > During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s WLIB, > saw its > ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. > The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the > O’Franken > Factor." > (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05) > Ha! Your timing regarding this post is spectacular. Your hero releases > his completely fucked up budget that (as right wingers just love) gives > poor people the finger as usual and you choose to pick the flies out of > horseshit with this completely insubstantial (and as usual, > misleading) asswipe of a post. Looks like the mighty righties are on > the run.
Bush’s budget (which, by the way, is none of you Candian Commies’ business) is spot on, cutting out useless garbage Demo-spend programs that help no one other than fat-cat Socialist bureaucrats. It’s a good start, George, KEEP CUTTING!!!!
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York >> All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, just > hype. >> Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal network > against >> Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as Rush’s > ratings >> soared. >> A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s > flagship WABC >> in New York had been setting records. >> In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its best > rating >> ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. >> During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s WLIB, > saw its >> ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. >> The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the > O’Franken >> Factor." >> (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05) > Ha! Your timing regarding this post is spectacular. Your hero releases > his completely fucked up budget that (as right wingers just love) gives > poor people the finger as usual and you choose to pick the flies out of > horseshit with this completely insubstantial (and as usual, > misleading) asswipe of a post. Looks like the mighty righties are on > the run. > Bush’s budget (which, by the way, is none of you Candian Commies’ business) > is spot on, cutting out useless garbage Demo-spend programs that help no one > other than fat-cat Socialist bureaucrats. It’s a good start, George, KEEP > CUTTING!!!!
Yeah, right- spot on if you’re rich. He’s basically given the finger to anyone who is unfortunate enough to be poor. We’ll see just how glad you voted for him you’ll be when the cuts hit home, loser. He doesn’t give fuck one about you. Bob
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> Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York
Lush BlowJob is still around ? Fat boy needs a couple bottles of sleeping pills and a bottle of jack to get rid of the selfcenterness he still suffers with.
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> Franken is a devout > capitalist — some of his > friends call him "Al > Franken Incorporated" > because of his many > business ventures.
Franken makes money on being a Leftist, which technically, is an anti-capitalist ideal. Much like the very rich Ted Kennedy, Senator Byrd, John Effing Kerry, et al, etc., etc. There’s money to be made in America, you just have to sell what some people will buy. Franken is another turd selling the stink. With rasslin skills!
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> http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html
I’m still wondering what Pouttine is. Sure, gravy and taters are good but w/ cheese? Must be on to something good, that’s a drunk-at-the-fridge combo.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York > >> All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, > just > > hype. > >> Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal > network > > against > >> Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as > Rush’s > > ratings > >> soared. > >> A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s > > flagship WABC > >> in New York had been setting records. > >> In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its > best > > rating > >> ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. > >> During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s > WLIB, > > saw its > >> ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. > >> The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the > > O’Franken > >> Factor." > >> (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05) > > Ha! Your timing regarding this post is spectacular. Your hero > releases > > his completely fucked up budget that (as right wingers just love) > gives > > poor people the finger as usual and you choose to pick the flies > out of > > horseshit with this completely insubstantial (and as usual, > > misleading) asswipe of a post. Looks like the mighty righties are > on > > the run. > Bush’s budget (which, by the way, is none of you Candian Commies’ > business) > is spot on, cutting out useless garbage Demo-spend programs that help > no one > other than fat-cat Socialist bureaucrats. It’s a good start, George, > KEEP > CUTTING!!!! > Yeah, right- spot on if you’re rich. He’s basically given the finger to > anyone who is unfortunate enough to be poor. We’ll see just how glad > you voted for him you’ll be when the cuts hit home, loser. He doesn’t > give fuck one about you. > Bob
I don’t expect him to, as oppsed to you work-sucking losers who think everyone owes you a free ride.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >> Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York >> >> All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, > just >> > hype. >> >> Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal > network >> > against >> >> Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as > Rush’s >> > ratings >> >> soared. >> >> A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s >> > flagship WABC >> >> in New York had been setting records. >> >> In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its > best >> > rating >> >> ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. >> >> During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s > WLIB, >> > saw its >> >> ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. >> >> The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the >> > O’Franken >> >> Factor." >> >> (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05) >> > Ha! Your timing regarding this post is spectacular. Your hero > releases >> > his completely fucked up budget that (as right wingers just love) > gives >> > poor people the finger as usual and you choose to pick the flies > out of >> > horseshit with this completely insubstantial (and as usual, >> > misleading) asswipe of a post. Looks like the mighty righties are > on >> > the run. >> Bush’s budget (which, by the way, is none of you Candian Commies’ > business) >> is spot on, cutting out useless garbage Demo-spend programs that help > no one >> other than fat-cat Socialist bureaucrats. It’s a good start, George, > KEEP >> CUTTING!!!! > Yeah, right- spot on if you’re rich. He’s basically given the finger to > anyone who is unfortunate enough to be poor. We’ll see just how glad > you voted for him you’ll be when the cuts hit home, loser. He doesn’t > give fuck one about you. > Bob > I don’t expect him to, as oppsed to you work-sucking losers who think > everyone owes you a free ride.
You don’t? Why the hell did you vote for him if you don’t expect him to? Just dumb? No one owes me a free ride- I’ve never held that ideology, which is a gross stereotype of what you consider to be "leftist". Bob
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >> Rush Beats Air America Radio in New York >> >> All of this talk of Air America’s ratings success may be, well, > just >> > hype. >> >> Despite the frontal assault launched by the upstart liberal > network >> > against >> >> Rush Limbaugh in New York, AA appears to have fallen flat as > Rush’s >> > ratings >> >> soared. >> >> A recent edition of Mediaweek reported that ratings at Rush’s >> > flagship WABC >> >> in New York had been setting records. >> >> In fact the 2004 fall Arbitron ratings found that WABC had its > best >> > rating >> >> ever since 1994, making it the top AM station in the market. >> >> During the same period, Air America, which airs on New York’s > WLIB, >> > saw its >> >> ratings share drop from 1.4 to 1.2. >> >> The reason? Let’s just call the phenomenon of lower ratings "the >> > O’Franken >> >> Factor." >> >> (From the Newsmax e-mail update, 02/07/05) >> > Ha! Your timing regarding this post is spectacular. Your hero > releases >> > his completely fucked up budget that (as right wingers just love) > gives >> > poor people the finger as usual and you choose to pick the flies > out of >> > horseshit with this completely insubstantial (and as usual, >> > misleading) asswipe of a post. Looks like the mighty righties are > on >> > the run. >> Bush’s budget (which, by the way, is none of you Candian Commies’ > business) >> is spot on, cutting out useless garbage Demo-spend programs that help > no one >> other than fat-cat Socialist bureaucrats. It’s a good start, George, > KEEP >> CUTTING!!!! > Yeah, right- spot on if you’re rich. He’s basically given the finger to > anyone who is unfortunate enough to be poor. We’ll see just how glad > you voted for him you’ll be when the cuts hit home, loser. He doesn’t > give fuck one about you. > Bob > I don’t expect him to, as oppsed to you work-sucking losers who think > everyone owes you a free ride.
And how big is the fucking deficit now, asswipe?
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Bush’s budget (which, by the way, is none of you Candian Commies’ business) is spot on, cutting out useless garbage Demo-spend programs that help no one other than fat-cat Socialist bureaucrats. It’s a good start, George >><BR><BR> I’m surprised to see that you’re in favor of a bigger government: Blueprint Calls for Bigger, More Powerful Government By Jim VandeHei (Washington Post) President Bush
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>>>>The 5 year IRA accounts.= Individual retirement accounts. >>>>>>>1980-1985 >>>>>>>Roth IRA accounts: Implemented in 1997. Still in the tax code. >>>>>> Good point. But what needs to be changed is that when I make a contribution >>>>>> to my IRA I would want to deduct that, or some percentage, of my forced >>>>>> payment into SS. That’s what this is all about. My choice vs. government >>>>>> bureaucrats managing my retirement fund. The bureaucrats disclaim this by >>>>>> stating that the SS is not a retirement fund, it is a safety net for those >>>>>> in need. Yet we all get the same regardless of need. >>>>>> Had I been able to put my contributions, or a good portion of them, into IRA >>>>>> accounts and the like when I started to work back in 1952, I would be a >>>>>> multi-millionaire today. >>>>>> Wayne >>>>>Just a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation: Your statement might be >>>>>true, but only if your salary was at the level of the cap (i.e. that you >>>>> were taxed the maximum amount) throughout your career, had no periods >>>>>of unemployment or disability, and invested wisely. If I recall >>>>>correctly, the FICA tax has been increased over the years as has the >>>>>cap, so even investing the max might not do it. It started at 1% of the >>>>>first $3,000, but I don’t have the history of how it was increased over >>>>>the years. Of course, if you were limiting your investments to IRA >>>>>accounts, they were limited to $2,000 — hardly the basis for a >>>>>reasonable retirement plan. Your retirement nest egg might not be as >>>>>large as you think. >>>>Of course it would have. That is if he had used his pennies to buy >>>>into MacDonalds in 1962, Walmart in 1972 and Microsoft in 1982. Of >>>>course had he selected Pedros Tamales in 1962 and Osborn Computers in >>>>1982, he would probably still be working as a Walmart greeter, with >>>>no hopes of ever retiring. So much for self directed retirement >>>>accounts in the hands of amateurs. >>> It was about 1982 that I bought $5,000 worth of gold, which is >>>still sitting in my safe deposit box. It’s almost worth what I paid >>>for it now in raw dollars, 20 years later and without interest. A >>>co-worker asked me at the time "Why don’t you buy microsoft?" >>I was aware of MSFT back then, it never seemed all that good of a >>thing at the time, so I never even thought about their stock. >>In 1975 or thereabouts I happened to have a few extra dollars so I >>bought five Krugerrands (1 ounce au each) for a little over $300 each. >>I saw gold go as high as $800 an ounce a few years later and I saw it >>go back down to about $300. I still have those damn coins. And they >>are probably worthless since the South African government fell, and I >>suppose the NAACP is boycotting Krugerrands. > No, they’ll be OK. They’re gold, not tin with a monetary amount >stamped on it. They’ll be OK until we can transmute lead into >gold, as Isaac Newton loved to work at during his vacations but >without success. We may be able to make gold economically >out of lead, or even out of cow-pies, before too long, though. >A Goldbug
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