A Notre Dame professor has analyzed Dick Cheney’s 2005 tax return and concluded that our fair Vice President exploited a new tax law instituted post-Katrina to save himself several million dollars. It turns out that Smirky Dick used a loophole intended to encourage charitable donations for Katrina relief to write off charitable contribution which went to non-Katrina causes. That alone might not be enough to get irked about, except that it looks like the exploitation of the loophole was deliberate to minimize his overall liability, and he used Halliburton money to do it. Cheney exercised some of his Halliburton options in late 2005, during which time that company’s profits were soaring in part because of fat no-bid reconstruction contracts granted to its subsidiary KBR in the wake of Katrina. Cheney used those proceeds — $6.8 million — to donate to charities per his 2001 agreement to use his options only for charity. Says the prof: "While there’s nothing inappropriate about that from a legal perspective, it does demonstrate how the legislation, which was sold to the public as providing relief to Katrina victims, provided significant tax benefits to the VP (and potentially other wealthy individuals) in situations that have nothing to do with Hurricane Katrina." Not illegal but definitely soulless, cynical, opportunist, and greedty. So, no big surprise. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2006/04/kirsch_cheney_t.html

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> Not illegal but definitely soulless, cynical, opportunist, and greedty. > So, no big surprise. > http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2006/04/kirsch_cheney_t.html

The man donates over SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS to charity and he is called greedy and soulless!

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Go ahead and keep hating Cheney and "the rich". It won’t improve your life. Cheney gave more to charity than Gore did his entire life, and I’m talking %, NOT total.

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> Go ahead and keep hating Cheney and "the rich". It won’t improve your > life. Cheney gave more to charity than Gore did his entire life, and > I’m talking %, NOT total.

Gore never shot any of his hunting buddies. (The charities are much more concerned with the total.)   –E

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Gore never shot any of his hunting buddies.? That’s cause he’s a bad shot.  ;-) And of course Dick is WAY ahead on the total, by a factor of at least 1,000. Cheers E, Mick (having more fun than a conservative should be allowed to have)

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> Gore never shot any of his hunting buddies.? > That’s cause he’s a bad shot.  ;-)

However you want to rationalize it!  ;) > And of course Dick is WAY ahead on the total, by a factor of at least > 1,000.

I think it’s fair to say that Cheney never gave away a dime that didn’t benefit him personally in some way. > Cheers E, > Mick (having more fun than a conservative should be allowed to have)

I thought conservatives had fun by fucking up the world beyond repair.   –E

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> I think it’s fair to say that Cheney never gave away a dime that didn’t > benefit him personally in some way.

Please do explain how giving over SEVEN MILLION Dollars to charity in 2005 benefited Dick Cheney.

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> Please do explain how giving over SEVEN MILLION Dollars to charity in 2005 > benefited Dick Cheney.

It benefitted him to the tune of a nearly $2,000,000 refund… "It appears that the VP is a major beneficiary of the Hurricane Katrina tax relief act. In particular, he claimed $6.8 million of charitable deductions, which is 77% of his AGI — well in excess of the 50% limitation that would have applied absent the Katrina legislation. The press release indicates that the charitable contribution reflects the amount of net proceeds from an independent administrator’s exercise of the VP’s Halliburton options — apparently, the VP had agreed back in 2001 that he would donate the net proceeds from the options to charities once they were exercised." – Huffington Post, 5/3/06 And: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/18/115445/192

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>> Please do explain how giving over SEVEN MILLION Dollars to charity in > 2005 > benefited Dick Cheney. > It benefitted him to the tune of a nearly $2,000,000 refund…

So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit?

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> >> Please do explain how giving over SEVEN MILLION Dollars to charity in >> 2005 >> benefited Dick Cheney. > It benefitted him to the tune of a nearly $2,000,000 refund… > So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit?

He’d already promised, as a part of his "separation" from Halliburton, to give away the $7 million. By using the Katrina scam he got a refund of almost $2 millon. He’s scum.

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>> So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit? > He’d already promised, as a part of his "separation" from Halliburton, > to give away the $7 million.

So that anyone that claimed that be was benefitting from Halliburton would NOT be telling the truth. He could have kept that money and he didn’t, he chose to give it to charity so fools like you would have no validity when you did your Halliburton?Cheney rants. By using the Katrina scam he got a refund > of almost $2 millon. He’s scum.

So taking a tax deduction is scummy? Were you so scummy as to take a tax deduction?

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> >> So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit? > He’d already promised, as a part of his "separation" from Halliburton, > to give away the $7 million. > So that anyone that claimed that be was benefitting from Halliburton would > NOT be telling the truth.

You’re an idiot. He had to give away the $7 million in any case but he used the "Katrina" rules to get a $2 million refund that he wouldn’t normally get. This wouldn’t be a problem except for the fact that the money he gave away didn’t go to any Katrina charities….

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>> >> So giving away 7 Million to get 2 Million is a benefit? > > He’d already promised, as a part of his "separation" from Halliburton, > > to give away the $7 million. > So that anyone that claimed that be was benefitting from Halliburton > would > NOT be telling the truth. > You’re an idiot. > He had to give away the $7 million in any case

Oh please do tell how he "had" to give away 7 Million, and include links with your clips!

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> > He had to give away the $7 million in any case > Oh please do tell how he "had" to give away 7 Million

It was a part of the separation agreement when he left Halliburton that when he eventually exercised certain of his stock options he’d give the money to charity.

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About two years ago, Dick Cheney told a national television audience, "[S]ince I left Halliburton to become George Bush’s vice president, I’ve severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interests," Cheney said. "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven’t had now for over three years." Even at the time, the claim wasn’t true. A non-partisan congressional report requested by Sen. Frank Lautenberg’s (D-N.J.) office showed that Cheney still has substantial financial interests in Halliburton, including lucrative deferred compensation and more than 433,000 stock options. But instead of acknowledging the ties divesting himself from his former company, Cheney denied everything. Lautenberg, to his enormous credit, has stuck with this story, and issued a report today explaining that the value of Cheney’s Halliburton stock options rose in value 3281% in one year. An analysis released today by the Office of Senator Frank R. Lautenberg reveals that Vice President Cheney’s Halliburton stock options have increased in value 3,281 percent in one year. The stock options, which were worth $241,498 one year ago are now valued at $8,165,489.07. In light of the surging value of Vice President Cheney’s holdings, Senator Lautenberg reiterated his call for the Vice President to forfeit his continuing financial interest in the Halliburton Co (HAL). Vice President Cheney continues to hold 433,333 Halliburton stock options and receives almost $200,000 a year in deferred salary from Halliburton. "As Halliburton’s fortunes rise, so do the Vice President’s, and that is wrong," said Senator Lautenberg. "Halliburton has already raked in more than $10 billion from the Bush-Cheney Administration for work in Iraq, and they were awarded some of the first Katrina contracts. It is unseemly for the Vice President to continue to benefit from this company at the same time his Administration funnels billions of dollars to it. The Vice President should sever his financial ties to Halliburton once and for all." Given the circumstances, that seems like a reasonable suggestion. According to the Vice President’s Federal Financial Disclosure forms, he holds the following Halliburton stock options: * 100,000 shares at $54.5000 (vested), expire 12-03-07 * 33,333 shares at $28.1250 (vested), expire 12-02-08 * 300,000 shares at $39.5000 (vested), expire 12-02-09 This continues to be a political problem for Cheney that can be easily resolved. Cheney could simply do what he claims to have already done: sever his ties and remove his financial interests from the company. Considering Halliburton’s lucrative government contracts, and the dubious conditions surrounding the deals, this should be a no-brainer for the White House. The longer they wait, the more Lautenberg is going to make Cheney look bad. Cheney is a lieing bastard!!! Besides getting rid of his Halliburton stock he should be punished for lieing and feeding Halliburton contracts. To me, the ridiculous 3281% increase is almost secondary to the deceit. This is a three part scandal 1) Halliburton keeps getting no-bid contracts 2) Cheney’s portfolio keeps getting bigger 3) Cheney lies about it. He’ll keep lying until he feels enough pressure to divest. I can pony up a WH response: 1. "Financial interest" has a specific definition under executive branch ethics rules and either (a) does not include stock options; (b) includes stock options but precludes their exercise while in office; or (c) includes option but only if they are exercisable within X years of your government employment. 2. Cheney has pledged not to exercise any of these options while he is vice president. 3. What are you gonna do about it? Just shillin’ for the man. This profitable arrangement was found hiding in plain sight last week by investigator Maggie Burns of the Progressive Populist. While the media mandarins were gulping soap, Burns committed the increasingly rare act of journalism by checking out Cheney’s financial disclosure forms. These show that Cheney has a minimum of $18 million invested in The Vanguard Group, a leading mutual fund. (Given the deliberately vague, vast ranges of the "disclosure" forms, this nest-egg could be as high as $87 million. We mere mortals are not meant to know). Vanguard, as it happens, is the 10th-largest shareholder in — oh, you guessed already! — Halliburton. The fund owns 7.6 million shares in the firm, worth about $176 million. Thus any government contract that swells Halliburton’s bottom line does indeed pour war profits straight into Cheney’s bulging bank accounts. No amount of soap can wash away that fact. Meanwhile, five of the other top 10 shareholders in Halliburton have big bucks parked with our old friends The Carlyle Group, where George Bush Sr. hangs out his shingle as a pricey corporate shill (and former bin Laden business partner). So Bush family coffers are definitely not forgotten when Halliburton goes to war. http://www.populist.com/03.19.burns.html

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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/18/115445/192 So, to bring this all back and to summarize, we have this: By exploiting a law that was meant for people to donate to Katrina relief, Cheney was able to net a $2,000,000 tax refund. At least half, if not more if this refund was solely due to their exploiting of this law. In order to do this, they had to write a personal check for over $2,000,000 at the end of 2005. None of the donations were to any Katrina relief organizations. The donations were from income related to Halliburton, which Cheney supposedly had no financial ties to. In any other year, they still would have received a few hundred thousand in tax refunds from this "non-financial tie" to Halliburton, if they donated the proceeds to charity. In each of the prior three years, their donations were never more than 4%-5% of their 2005 totals, the only year that this law applies to. Once again, they flat out lie in their press release by obscuring the million or so that they personally benefited from this transaction. The timing, while not illegal, is extremely self serving and shady, especially in light of the fact that they should not be benefiting financially from any ties to Halliburton. shows that they made a $2.7 million donation to the Cardiothoracic Institute of George Washington University Medical Center, where the vice president has been treated for heart ailments. They also gave $1.3 million to Capital Partners for Education, a Georgetown-based scholarship fund that helps finance education at private schools for area teenagers. It was the largest single contribution in the charity’s history. Together with a $2.7 million to the University of Wyoming, where the vice president graduated in 1965 and his wife taught English, the couple made about $6.8 million in charitable donations last year. Washinton Post Payoffs to his doctors, private schools and his alma mater.  Whatta guy.  The first two things I am referring to (1+ / 0-) Recommended by:clammyc #1)  Cheney worked for Halliburton and said he had no financial ties to it.  Yet he still gets income tax deductions when the stock options are exercised and given to charities.  That number ballooned due to Katrina legislation. #2)  See #1 and add: Of all the money given to charity last year, $0.00 went to Katrina charities.  He got more deductibles because the vague wording of the Katrina legislation allowed any money to any charity to go above the 50% of income threshold. Therefore, he gave money to (0 Katrina-related) charities in excess of the 50% threshold due to Katrina legislation.  That money was then returned to him as an income tax deduction. .

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Spurred on by clammyc’s diary about Cheney’s charitable contributions. I started wondering why Cheney would give so much money ($1.3 million) to Capital Partners for Education, a Georgetown-based scholarship fund that helps finance education at private and parochial schools for area teenagers. (http://www.cpfe.org/) It was not only the largest single contribution in the charity’s history, but also represents twice their annual budget revenue for this fiscal year. (hat-tips to AMcG826 and mspicata; and I see that HeyThereItsEric has also done some digging). Here’s the rub – this organization seems (at least on the surface – and that’s as far as I’ve gone) to be an admirable one for inner-city DC youth. And that’s the BIG RED FLAG for me. Why would Dick Cheney do that? Much more below the flip dannyinla’s diary :: :: Why be suspicious – well, that’s how this administration has conditioned us. Since everything they do is under a cloud of secrecy, it’s Pavlovian for me. If Cheney does it, it must be wrong. So, I poke my nose around a little further and the mystery gets even deeper. A solid majority of these companies represented by the Board of Directors have connections to Iraqi and/or rebuilding and reconstruction. It spreads out like a web and touches everything from Halliburton to President Hamid Karzai’s security. And why? This is a group that seems to be benevolent in its support of inner city youth. But I’ve learned that in the Bush-Cheney world, benevolence can’t just be benevolence. It’s like when Barbara Bush donated money to the Katrina fund… and then we learn it was earmarked for Ignite!, an educational system for Houston schools. Heck, how can that be bad? But then we find out that Ignite was started by her son, Neal Bush… and that it received financial support from a vast array of foreign concerns, not the least of which was Boris Berezovsky, the Godfather of the Kremlin… and pal of Neal Bush’s. See… when these evil bastards give money for good causes… it seems like there’s always an undercurrent that they are trying to cover. Let’s take a look at the Board for Capital Partners for Education. I want to preface this by saying that many of these people seem okay. Many donate to Republicans; many donate to Democrats. As individuals, there aren’t that many black marks here. But it’s the companies that they work for that raise eyebrows. Why does CPE have two members of The Carlyle Group on their board? That’s the first thing that jumps out. Praveen Jeyarajah Managing Director, The Caryle Group Charles Rossotti Senior Advisor, The Caryle Group Carlyle specializes in the following industries: Aerospace & Defense, Automotive, Consumer & Industrial, Energy & Power, Healthcare, Real Estate, Technology & Business Services, Telecommunication & Media, and Transportation. The Group’s aerospace and defense investments have been a source of criticism because of the Group’s alleged connections to the Middle East. The Carlyle Group’s investments are focused on East Asia, Europe and North America. Defense investments represent about 1% of the group’s current portfolio — though this translates, for example, into a 33.8% ownership of QinetiQ, the UK’s recently privatized defense company — but this is the area for which Carlyle Group is best known. Then there’s the Hudson Institute, whose trustees and fellows include Richard Perle, Conrad Black and Scooter Libby. They operate various programs (listed below), including one run by Meyrav Wurmser, wife of David Wurmser, the former Middle East advisor to Dick Cheney, and one of the authors of the neocon strategy paper titled "Clean Break." Carol Adelman, PhD Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute The Hudson Institute is a non-profit think tank headquartered in Washington D.C. While describing itself as "non-partisan" and preferring to portray itself as independently "contrarian" rather than as a conservative think tank, the Hudson Institute gains financial support from many of the foundations and corporations that have bankrolled the conservative movement. [snip]… [I]n the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks it has substantially boosted its focus on international issues such as the Middle East, Latin America and Islam. The Institute now operates a number of programs – each of which are dubbed as a "center" or "project" – including: *    Center for Islam, Democracy and the Future of the Muslim World – Hillel Fradkin Director *    Islam and Democracy Project – Husain Haqqani Co-Chair; *    Project on Campaign and Election Laws – Amy Kaufman; *    Center for Middle East Policy – Meyrav Wurmser Director; Then there’s Computer Sciences Corporation: Caralyn Brace Partner, Computer Sciences Corporation In March 2003, Computer Sciences Corporation., one of the country’s leading IT consulting firms with revenue of more than $11 billion in 2002, acquired DynCorp for $950 million. Computer Sciences Corporation had more than 1,000 contracts with the U.S. government from 1990 through 2002, worth $15.8 billion. Iraq contracts On April 18, 2003, Computer Sciences Corporation’s DynCorp International won a contract from the U.S. Department of State to provide up to 1,000 civilian advisers to help organize civilian law enforcement, judicial and correctional agencies. Afghanistan contracts In November 2002, the State Department’s Diplomatic Security Services took over responsibility for President Hamid Karzai’s security from the U.S. military. Part of the work was then contracted out to DynCorp, which also assisted in the protection of Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the Haitian president, in the early 1990s. http://www.publicintegrity.org/… On to Hogan and Hartson LLP J. Warren Gorrell, Jr. Chairman, Hogan & Hartson, LLP Rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraq Pursuing Opportunities & Managing Risk Iraq Legal Issues Mr. Robert Kyle, Partner, Hogan & Hartson LLP – Planning for Operations in Iraq http://www.yuricareport.com/… How about Arlington Capital Partners? And how about the company they transformed into? QinetiQ. Sound familiar? Scroll back up to the Carlyle Group, which owns 1/3 of QinetiQ. John A. Bates Principal, Arlington Capital Partners Among the private equities that have focused their efforts on the emerging homeland security contracting, trying to replicate Carlyle’s success with defense contracting, are Paladin Capital Partners, Arlington Capital Partners, and Behrman Capital. Arlington Capital Partners, a $450 million private equity, acquired two top federal contractors, ITS Services in April 2003 and Science & Engineering Associates Inc. in January 2004. The firm combined the two, and named the new company Apogen Technologies, which provides "technology solutions" to the departments of Defense and the Homeland Security, as well as other branches of the government. Apogen ranks among the top 10 Department of Homeland Security contractors. http://www.publicintegrity.org/… In early August 2005 QinetiQ announced that it would acquire Apogen Technologies, Inc., pending regulatory approval. The QinetiQ website lists this merger as costing $288.0m (

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? > In February, Republicans voted through nearly $12 billion in cuts to > student assistance programs. President Bush’s most recent budget, for the > sixth straight year, leaves the maximum Pell Grant-the nation’s primary > grant assistance program – well below the $5,100 he promised while > campaigning for a second term. >     These broken promises and cuts come at a time when the typical student > borrower graduates with $17,500 in loan debt. Interest rates on federal > student loans are being hiked this July by order of Bush’s "deficit > reduction" bill. Tuition at four year public colleges rose 40 percent since > 2001, and 200,000 students are unable to attend college at all this year > because of the costs. > You think education’s expensive?  Try ignorance.

Hi, It is easier to control/manipulate dumb than smartee.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? In February, > Republicans voted through nearly $12 billion in cuts to > student assistance programs. President Bush’s most recent budget, for the > sixth straight year, leaves the maximum Pell Grant-the nation’s primary > grant assistance program – well below the $5,100 he promised while > campaigning for a second term. >     These broken promises and cuts come at a time when the typical > student > borrower graduates with $17,500 in loan debt. Interest rates on federal > student loans are being hiked this July by order of Bush’s "deficit > reduction" bill. Tuition at four year public colleges rose 40 percent > since > 2001, and 200,000 students are unable to attend college at all this year > because of the costs. > You think education’s expensive?  Try ignorance. > Hi, > It is easier to control/manipulate dumb than smartee.

That’s right.  Plus we need poor ignorant people to take those low paying jobs at MacDonalds, Home Depots, Walmarts, etc.  The system depends on most people being ignorant and powerless.  Can’t have too many rich people – there wouldn’t be enough to go around then.

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> It is easier to control/manipulate dumb than smartee.

Cheney proves that every day.

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"> > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? quite simply education gives rise to an affluent middle class, and REALLY screws with the whole "have/have not" thing.  It also keeps the dilitantes out of the old boys club

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Ever meet or hear of a poor politician from either or any camp? Term limits are the key, no more career politicians….and they must live by the rules they make for the rest of us. Serve and get the "F" out!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "> > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? > quite simply education gives rise to an affluent middle class, and REALLY > screws with the whole "have/have not" thing.  It also keeps the dilitantes > out of the old boys club

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courageously avow: >Ever meet or hear of a poor politician from either or any camp? Term limits >are the key, no more career politicians….and they must live by the rules >they make for the rest of us. Serve and get the "F" out! > "> > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? > quite simply education gives rise to an affluent middle class, and REALLY > screws with the whole "have/have not" thing.  It also keeps the dilitantes > out of the old boys club

Term limits aren’t the answer.  You could tie the hands of someone who might actually be doing the job.  What you need is a mechanism for the voters to launch a recall initiative when the dufus/dufette isn’t carrying out the people’s will and it has to be one that can be effectively used in a timely and straightforward way.  On the other hand, a good old revolution is a good way to remind them who the fuck they’re supposed to be working for. Sidebar:  Make treason a capital offense and easier to prove, hehehe… Ken Wilson

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I see what yer sayin about the people tossing recalls and such, that mechanism would be a monumental work, human nature would dictate no one ever stays in office more than 2 weeks…if that. Maybe if party’s were disbanded as well. Interesting human and political engineering program that would be. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > courageously avow: >Ever meet or hear of a poor politician from either or any camp? Term limits >are the key, no more career politicians….and they must live by the rules >they make for the rest of us. Serve and get the "F" out! >> "> > Why do Republicans hate education, unless it’s for the rich? >> quite simply education gives rise to an affluent middle class, and REALLY >> screws with the whole "have/have not" thing.  It also keeps the dilitantes >> out of the old boys club > Term limits aren’t the answer.  You could tie the hands of someone who > might actually be doing the job.  What you need is a mechanism for the > voters to launch a recall initiative when the dufus/dufette isn’t > carrying out the people’s will and it has to be one that can be > effectively used in a timely and straightforward way.  On the other > hand, a good old revolution is a good way to remind them who the fuck > they’re supposed to be working for. > Sidebar:  Make treason a capital offense and easier to prove, > hehehe… > Ken Wilson

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> > Term limits aren’t the answer.  You could tie the hands of someone who > might actually be doing the job.  What you need is a mechanism for the > voters to launch a recall initiative when the dufus/dufette isn’t > carrying out the people’s will and it has to be one that can be > effectively used in a timely and straightforward way.  On the other > hand, a good old revolution is a good way to remind them who the fuck > they’re supposed to be working for. > Sidebar:  Make treason a capital offense and easier to prove, > hehehe… > Ken Wilson

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042306X.shtml Bill Moyers | A Time for Heresy . This is a time for heresy. American democracy is threatened by perversions of money, power, and religion. Money has bought our elections right out from under us. Power has turned government "of, by, and for the people" into the patron of privilege. And Christianity and Islam have been hijacked by fundamentalists who have made religion the language of power, the excuse for violence, and the alibi for empire. We must answer the principalities and powers that would force on America a stifling conformity. Either we make the heretical choices that will inspire us to renew our commitment to America’s deepest values and ideals, or the day will come when we will no longer recognize the country we love.     Here’s what I mean.     Two years ago, the American Political Science Association produced a study entitled Democracy in an Age of Rising Inequality . The report said people with wealth – privileged Americans – are "roaring with a clarity and consistency that public officials readily hear and routinely follow" while citizens "with lower or moderate incomes are speaking with a whisper." The study concluded that "progress toward realizing American ideals of democracy may have stalled, and even, in some places, reversed."     The following year – 2005 – the editors of The Economist, one of the world’s most pro-capitalist publications, produced their own sobering analysis of what is happening in America. They found great and growing income disparities. Thirty years ago the average annual compensation of the top 100 chief executives was 30 times the pay of the average worker; today it is 1000 times the pay of the average worker.     They found an education system "increasingly stratified by social class" in which poor children "attend schools with fewer resources than those of their richer contemporaries." They found our celebrated universities increasingly "reinforcing rather that reducing" these educational inequalities.     They found American corporations no longer successful agents of upward mobility. It is now harder for people to start at the bottom and rise up the company hierarchy by dint of hard work and self-improvement.     The editors of The Economist studied all this evidence and concluded – and I am quoting a pro-business magazine, remember – that the United States "risks calcifying into a European-style, class-based society."     Let that sink in: The United States "risks calcifying into a European-style, class-based society."     In 1960 I heard John F. Kennedy promise that "a rising tide lifts all boats." He was right then. He would be wrong today. Just this past weekend The Washington Post, in a lead editorial, called for a second look at the old belief "that anyone who works hard and plays by the rules can attain the American dream by sharing in the fruits of economic progress." As great wealth accumulated at the top, the rest of the country is not benefiting proportionally. Across the country working men and women are strained to cope with the rising cost of health care, pharmaceutical drugs, housing, higher education, and public transportation – all of which have risen faster than typical family income. The economist Robert J. Gordon, quoted in The Financial Times (another pro-business publication), says there has been "little long-term change in workers share of U.S. income over the past half century." The top ten percent of earners have captured almost half the total income gains and the top one percent has gained the most of all – more in fact, than all the bottom 50 percent.     We are witnessing a marked turn of events for a nation whose DNA contains the inherent promise of an equal opportunity at "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." We were not supposed to be a country where the winners take all. The great progressive struggles in our history were waged to make sure ordinary citizens, and not just the rich, share in the benefits of a free society. Today, however, the majority of Americans may support such broad social goals as affordable medical coverage for all, decent wages for working people, safe working conditions, a good education for every child, and clean air and water, but there’s no government "of, by, and for the people" to deliver on those aspirations. America is no longer working for all Americans.     How did this happen? By design. For a quarter of a century now a ferocious campaign has been conducted to dismantle the political institutions, the legal and statutory canons, and the intellectual, cultural, and religious frameworks that sustained America’s social contract. The corporate, political, and religious right converged in a movement that for a long time only they understood because they are its advocates, its architects, and its beneficiaries.     Their economic strategy was to cut workforces and wages, scour the globe for even cheaper labor, and relieve investors of any responsibility for the cost of society. On the weekend before President Bush’s second inauguration, The New York Times described how his first round of tax cuts had already brought our tax code closer to a system under which income on wealth would not be taxed at all and public expenditures would be raised exclusively from salaries and wages.     Their political strategy was to neutralize the independent media, create their own propaganda machine with a partisan press, and flood their coffers with rivers of money from those who stand to benefit from the transfer of public resources to elite control. Along the way they would burden the nation with structural deficits that will last until our children’s children are ready to retire, systematically stripping government of its capacity, over time, to do little more than wage war and reward privilege.     Their religious strategy was to fuse ideology and theology into a worldview freed of the impurities of compromise, claim for America the status of God’s favored among nations (and therefore beyond political critique or challenge), and demonize their opponents as ungodly and immoral.     At the intersection of these three strategies was money: Big Money.     They found a deep flaw in our political system and zeroed in on it.     Our elected officials need huge sums of money to finance their campaigns, especially to buy television. The average cost of running and winning a seat in the House of Representatives – the so-called "People’s House" – now tops one million dollars. The chairman of the Federal Election Commission said just this weekend that anyone who expects to run for the nomination for president – the nomination – in 2008 will need to have raised one hundred million dollars by the end of 2007. That money isn’t going to come from regular folks – less than one half of one percent of all Americans made a contribution of $200 or more to a federal candidate in 2004. No, the men and women who have mastered the money game have taken advantage of this fundamental weakness in our system – the high cost of campaigns – to sell democracy to the highest bidder.     Some simple facts:     The number of lobbyists registered to do business in Washington has more than doubled in the last five years. That’s 16,342 lobbyists in 2000 to 34,785 last year. Sixty-five lobbyists for every member of Congress.     The total spent per month by special interests wining, dining, and seducing federal officials is now nearly $200 million. Per month.     But it’s a small investment on the return. Just look at the most important legislation passed by Congress in the last decade.     There was the energy bill that gave oil companies huge tax breaks at the same time that Exxon Mobil just posted $36 billion in profits in 2005, while our gasoline and home heating bills are at an all-time high.     There was the bankruptcy "reform" bill written by credit card companies to make it harder for poor debtors to escape the burdens of divorce or medical catastrophe.     There was the deregulation of the banking, securities, and insurance sectors, which led to rampant corporate malfeasance and greed and the destruction of the retirement plans of millions of small investors.     There was the deregulation of the telecommunications sector which led to cable industry price-gouging and the abandonment of news coverage by the big media companies.     There was the blocking of even the mildest attempt to prevent American corporations from dodging an estimated $50 billion in annual taxes by opening a P.O. box in an off-shore tax haven like Bermuda or the Cayman Islands.     In every case these results were driven by the demands of Big Money in the form of campaign contributions and the cost of lobbying.     And in every case, the religious right was cheering for the winners.     You’ve heard about Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff, I’m sure. Let me tell you a little more than what you might have heard.     Tom DeLay was a small businessman from Sugar Land, Texas, who ran a pest extermination business before he entered politics. He hated the government regulators who dared to tell him that some of the pesticides he used were dangerous – as, unfortunately, they were. DeLay got himself elected to the Texas legislature at a time the Republicans were becoming the majority in the once-solid Democratic south, and his … read more »

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> Ever meet or hear of a poor politician from either or any camp? Term limits > are the key

Wrong. Public financing of elections and limits on campaign spending are the key. That’d even the playing field.

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I don’t know if you already know this. Funny. HOW TO SING THE BLUES 1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning." 2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, ‘less you stick something nasty in the next line, like " I got a good woman, with the meanest face in town." 3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes … sort of: "Got a good woman – with the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher – and she weigh 500 pound." 4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a ditch; ain’t no way out. 5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don’t travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft an’ state-sponsored motor pools ain’t even in the running. Walkin’ plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin’ to die. 6. Teenagers can’t sing the Blues. They ain’t fixin’ to die yet. Adults sing the Blues. In Blues, " adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis. 7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don’t get rain. 8. A man with male pattern baldness ain’t the blues. A woman with male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is. 9. You can’t have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster. 10. Good places for the Blues: a. highway b. jailhouse c. empty bed d. bottom of a whiskey glass Bad places: a. Ashrams b. gallery openings c. Ivy League institutions d. golf courses 11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. 12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if: a. you’re older than dirt b. you’re blind c. you shot a man in Memphis d. you can’t be satisfied No, if: a. you have all your teeth b. you were once blind but now can see c. the man in Memphis lived. d. you have a retirement plan or trust fund. 13. Blues is not a matter of color. It’s a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also got a leg up on the blues. 14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it’s the Blues. Other acceptable Blues beverages are: a. wine b. whiskey or bourbon c. muddy water d. black coffee The following are NOT Blues beverages: a. mixed drinks b. kosher wine c. Snapple d. sparkling water 15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it’s a Blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a broken down cot. You can’t have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or getting liposuction. 16. Some Blues names for women: a. Sadie b. Big Mama c. Bessie d. Fat River Dumpling 17. Some Blues names for men: a. Joe b. Willie c. Little Willie d. Big Willie 18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can’t sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis. 19. Make your own Blues name (starter kit): a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.) b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi,etc.) c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. (Well, maybe not "Kiwi.") 20. I don’t care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot sing the blues. You best destroy it. Fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, or get out a shotgun. I don’t care. Credits goes to Lame Mango Washington (attributed to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky, revisions by Little Blind Patti D. and Dr. Stevie Franklin)

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Broke ma dick this mornin’ Up some fools ass He done got snakey own me So I packed his gas An these are his blues Oh lawd, that bitch he got the blues Gomer thought he was slick Now he run ‘roun wif half my dick Up hiz azz Ya I bent ma hog this mornin’ Up some fools ass He up an’went nasty own me So I packed his gas An these are his blues Oh lawd, that bitch he got the blues Gomer thought he was slick Now he run ‘roun wif half my dick Up hiz azz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > HOW TO SING THE BLUES > 1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning." > 2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, ‘less you > stick something nasty in the next line, like " I got a good woman, with > the meanest face in town." > 3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. > Then find something that rhymes … sort of: "Got a good woman – with > the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher – and she > weigh 500 pound." > 4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a > ditch; ain’t no way out. > 5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don’t > travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues > transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft > an’ state-sponsored motor pools ain’t even in the running. Walkin’ > plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin’ to die. > 6. Teenagers can’t sing the Blues. They ain’t fixin’ to die yet. Adults > sing the Blues. In Blues, " adulthood" means being old enough to get > the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis. > 7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place > in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. > Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the > Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don’t get rain. > 8. A man with male pattern baldness ain’t the blues. A woman with male > pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. > Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is. > 9. You can’t have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The > lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the > dumpster. > 10. Good places for the Blues: > a. highway > b. jailhouse > c. empty bed > d. bottom of a whiskey glass > Bad places: > a. Ashrams > b. gallery openings > c. Ivy League institutions > d. golf courses > 11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you > happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. > 12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if: > a. you’re older than dirt > b. you’re blind > c. you shot a man in Memphis > d. you can’t be satisfied > No, if: > a. you have all your teeth > b. you were once blind but now can see > c. the man in Memphis lived. > d. you have a retirement plan or trust fund. > 13. Blues is not a matter of color. It’s a matter of bad luck. Tiger > Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also > got a leg up on the blues. > 14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it’s the Blues. > Other acceptable Blues beverages are: > a. wine > b. whiskey or bourbon > c. muddy water > d. black coffee > The following are NOT Blues beverages: > a. mixed drinks > b. kosher wine > c. Snapple > d. sparkling water > 15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it’s a Blues > death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to > die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a > broken down cot. You can’t have a Blues death if you die during a > tennis match or getting liposuction. > 16. Some Blues names for women: > a. Sadie > b. Big Mama > c. Bessie > d. Fat River Dumpling > 17. Some Blues names for men: > a. Joe > b. Willie > c. Little Willie > d. Big Willie > 18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can’t > sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis. > 19. Make your own Blues name (starter kit): > a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.) > b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi,etc.) > c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) > For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. > (Well, maybe not "Kiwi.") > 20. I don’t care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot > sing the blues. You best destroy it. Fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, > or get out a shotgun. I don’t care. > Credits goes to Lame Mango Washington > (attributed to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky, > revisions by Little Blind Patti D. and Dr. Stevie Franklin)

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I’ve seen at least parts of this.  I don’t think I saw a version that’s this extended.  I remember the part about how to make you own Blues name. Stateboro Blues (Allman Brothers version) comes instantly to my mind when reading the part about the essential elements of a Blues song. I need to get me a CD copy of their Lp "At Fillmore East".  Great stuff by them on that Lp, and Dwayne’s sound and his playing were just amazing.  Their cover of "One Way Out" on there is a classic. It’d almost be worth being in a band just to play some of those songs. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I don’t know if you already know this. >Funny. >HOW TO SING THE BLUES >1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning." >2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, ‘less you >stick something nasty in the next line, like " I got a good woman, with >the meanest face in town." >3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. >Then find something that rhymes … sort of: "Got a good woman – with >the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher – and she >weigh 500 pound." >4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a >ditch; ain’t no way out. >5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don’t >travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues >transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft >an’ state-sponsored motor pools ain’t even in the running. Walkin’ >plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin’ to die. >6. Teenagers can’t sing the Blues. They ain’t fixin’ to die yet. Adults >sing the Blues. In Blues, " adulthood" means being old enough to get >the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis. >7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place >in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. >Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the >Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don’t get rain. >8. A man with male pattern baldness ain’t the blues. A woman with male >pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. >Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is. >9. You can’t have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The >lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the >dumpster. >10. Good places for the Blues: >a. highway >b. jailhouse >c. empty bed >d. bottom of a whiskey glass >Bad places: >a. Ashrams >b. gallery openings >c. Ivy League institutions >d. golf courses >11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you >happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. >12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if: >a. you’re older than dirt >b. you’re blind >c. you shot a man in Memphis >d. you can’t be satisfied >No, if: >a. you have all your teeth >b. you were once blind but now can see >c. the man in Memphis lived. >d. you have a retirement plan or trust fund. >13. Blues is not a matter of color. It’s a matter of bad luck. Tiger >Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also >got a leg up on the blues. >14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it’s the Blues. >Other acceptable Blues beverages are: >a. wine >b. whiskey or bourbon >c. muddy water >d. black coffee >The following are NOT Blues beverages: >a. mixed drinks >b. kosher wine >c. Snapple >d. sparkling water >15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it’s a Blues >death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to >die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a >broken down cot. You can’t have a Blues death if you die during a >tennis match or getting liposuction. >16. Some Blues names for women: >a. Sadie >b. Big Mama >c. Bessie >d. Fat River Dumpling >17. Some Blues names for men: >a. Joe >b. Willie >c. Little Willie >d. Big Willie >18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can’t >sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis. >19. Make your own Blues name (starter kit): >a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.) >b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi,etc.) >c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) >For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. >(Well, maybe not "Kiwi.") >20. I don’t care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot >sing the blues. You best destroy it. Fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, >or get out a shotgun. I don’t care. >Credits goes to Lame Mango Washington >(attributed to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky, >revisions by Little Blind Patti D. and Dr. Stevie Franklin)

– That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman.  –Head of Careers Advisory Board

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I still have my "Live at Fillmore" — 8Track .. frozen in time, likely on Whipping Post between tracks 2 and 3 … Dickie Betts on Stormy Monday rates up there in top 5 or 7 all times greatest guitar solos … along with Jessica, Watchtower by Jimi. I have a Best Of ABB CD in the truck .. never too far away for when the radio dwells to boring .

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>I still have my "Live at Fillmore" — 8Track .. frozen in time, >likely on Whipping Post between tracks 2 and 3 … >Dickie Betts on Stormy Monday rates up there >in top 5 or 7 all times greatest guitar solos … along >with Jessica, Watchtower by Jimi.

I never followed the band closely enough to know which ABB Lp is which.  In fact, I even had to go to the B&N website to find out that "At Fillmore East" is the name of the one I have on vinyl, that actually belongs to…  the missing drummer >I have a Best Of ABB CD in the truck .. never too far >away for when the radio dwells to boring .

All I have is a copy of a copy of an ABB CD that someone gave me. It’s recent enough to have Derek Trucks on slide.  I can’t remember what it’s called.  One of my favorite tracks on it is them covering the Stones’ "Heart of Stone". But I do need to buy some of their albums on CD.   That "At Fillmore East" is one I want.  I don’t know much about the rest.  I mostly want to get albums where Dwayne was still around. Pete — That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman.  –Head of Careers Advisory Board

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First time I read this.   It’s great, but I just realize I can’t sing the blues.  Wish I would have know this a few months ago before I started my blues lessons.  I bet someone can some up with a funnier one about How to Sing Rock and Roll. >11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you >      happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it.

Reminds me of an old Chucky Berry interview where he claims that he invented the duck walk to hide some wrinkles in his suit.  But I guess he doesn’t sing the blues anyways.

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> First time I read this.   It’s great, but I just realize I can’t sing > the blues.  Wish I would have know this a few months ago before I > started my blues lessons.  I bet someone can some up with a funnier one > about How to Sing Rock and Roll. >11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you >     happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. > Reminds me of an old Chucky Berry interview where he claims that he > invented the duck walk to hide some wrinkles in his suit.  But I guess > he doesn’t sing the blues anyways.

And your typing doesn’t rock. Stay lurked.

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>First time I read this.   It’s great, but I just realize I can’t sing >the blues.  Wish I would have know this a few months ago before I >started my blues lessons.  I bet someone can some up with a funnier one >about How to Sing Rock and Roll. >11. No one will believe it’s the Blues if you wear a suit, ‘less you >      happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it. >Reminds me of an old Chucky Berry interview where he claims that he >invented the duck walk to hide some wrinkles in his suit.  But I guess >he doesn’t sing the blues anyways.

Word is that they sent him back to Memphis because he was too Country. Pete — That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman.  –Head of Careers Advisory Board

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > All I have is a copy of a copy of an ABB CD that someone gave me. It’s > recent enough to have Derek Trucks on slide.  I can’t remember what > it’s called.  One of my favorite tracks on it is them covering the > Stones’ "Heart of Stone". > But I do need to buy some of their albums on CD.   > That "At Fillmore East" is one I want.  I don’t know much about the > rest.  I mostly want to get albums where Dwayne was still around. > Pete > — > That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman. >  –Head of Careers Advisory Board

But mostly Petemeat, _you_ should play and post it as a link instead of perma-playing lame-O rabbit farter at others in AGA. That filthy fat frog up in Denver sure provided you, Stalky, TD, PMG, DGD, Lupi, O’Turd, & Dougy Trustifarian with a badddddddddd influence MVM http://www.geocities.com/mvm55555 Mark Huber (King Kock) converted a .cda (from CD’s I sent him) to one .mp3 and uplinked this for me, which was good of him. I can’t be bothered to purchase whatever conversion app he used, but I’ve got dozens of tunes far better than this one. Plink on and try to man-up like an independent thinker. FoxNews Alert. .

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 > Claudio quoted: … > 8. A man with male pattern baldness ain’t the blues. A woman with male > pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. > Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is.

… This is soooo not true.  It depends on what happens because of the baldness.  If yo baby done lef you cuz of it, or the poleese done bust you coz you look just like some bald guy what shot a man in Memphis, you got the blues.

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… > Stateboro Blues (Allman Brothers version) comes instantly to my mind > when reading the part about the essential elements of a Blues song.

Whipping Post and One Way Out jump to my mind, and maybe Black Hearted Woman, with Statesboro Blues coming in fourth.

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>… > Stateboro Blues (Allman Brothers version) comes instantly to my mind > when reading the part about the essential elements of a Blues song. >Whipping Post and One Way Out jump to my mind, >and maybe Black Hearted Woman, with Statesboro >Blues coming in fourth.

I love Whipping Post!  That’s definitely a great Allman Brothers tune. Somewhere I have Zappa doing a cover of Whipping Post.  Nothing demented (that I noticed) but it was probably a nod to the Allman Brother’s great arrangement. Hey Miles, your being a Mountain fan and all, this is what you need instead of a Strat!: http://lasttelecaster.home.comcast.net/Dillion/Dillion58JrFront.jpg http://lasttelecaster.home.comcast.net/Dillion/Dillion58JrBack.jpg Oh wait…..   this isn’t the Fender thread.  Never mind. Pete — That man was a successful encyclopaedia salesman.  –Head of Careers Advisory Board

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>I had the same problem as your father.  I received book royalties that >pushed me over the top.  I don’t know of any way to delay the income. >It is a lesson to those of us who took our SS at age 62.  The lesson is >"don’t".  In fact, delay to age 70 if possible.

There is no one correct answer for everyone.  Delaying SS until 70 for me would cost me.  $140,000 in lost SS payments.  I would have to live to nearly 80 to make up the difference even if I could support  myself and wife with out SS at 62. Thumper

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> How do you get paid from the LLC?  Is it earned income or dividends? > Have you explored a SEP IRA?  Some of that can be shielded there I > believe. > Thumper

We get paid thru monthly ‘payouts’. Basically, we just agree to keep a minimum amount of money in the checking account at the end of each month and then write checks to each of us. We don’t get a salary nor do we get wages. I’ll look to see if a SEP IRA will be applicable here.

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I had the same problem as your father.  I received book royalties that pushed me over the top.  I don’t know of any way to delay the income. It is a lesson to those of us who took our SS at age 62.  The lesson is "don’t".  In fact, delay to age 70 if possible.

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>I had the same problem as your father.  I received book royalties that >pushed me over the top.  I don’t know of any way to delay the income. >It is a lesson to those of us who took our SS at age 62.  The lesson is >"don’t".  In fact, delay to age 70 if possible.

   Or, don’t work.  I realize some have psychological problems if they don’t work, but I’m not among that number myself.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Right Rita.  People try to get too clever.  He’ll be paying 50% on the >> amount in excess of 12,000.   Even if he could give up SS he would >> probably lose more money that way.  Would you have 1/2 of your SS or >> none? >> Thumper > Actually, i meant to say he is a partner (with me and two others) in an > LLC, not that it makes much of a difference in this topic from being > self-employed. I guess the best we can do is pay all our bills early to > lower our profit. You’re right, 1/2 of the SS is better than none. ><G>

How do you get paid from the LLC?  Is it earned income or dividends? Have you explored a SEP IRA?  Some of that can be shielded there I believe. Thumper

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> Right Rita.  People try to get too clever.  He’ll be paying 50% on the > amount in excess of 12,000.   Even if he could give up SS he would > probably lose more money that way.  Would you have 1/2 of your SS or > none? > Thumper

Actually, i meant to say he is a partner (with me and two others) in an LLC, not that it makes much of a difference in this topic from being self-employed. I guess the best we can do is pay all our bills early to lower our profit. You’re right, 1/2 of the SS is better than none.

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> Right Rita.  People try to get too clever.  He’ll be paying 50% on the > amount in excess of 12,000.   Even if he could give up SS he would > probably lose more money that way.  Would you have 1/2 of your SS or > none? > Thumper > Actually, i meant to say he is a partner (with me and two others) in an > LLC, not that it makes much of a difference in this topic from being > self-employed. I guess the best we can do is pay all our bills early to > lower our profit. You’re right, 1/2 of the SS is better than none.

<G>

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>>My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is >likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free >limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he >earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). >Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he >hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? >Thanks, >Mike >If he opted for SS at age 62, he’s in and that’s it.

Right Rita.  People try to get too clever.  He’ll be paying 50% on the amount in excess of 12,000.   Even if he could give up SS he would probably lose more money that way.  Would you have 1/2 of your SS or none? Thumper

Response:

>My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is >likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free >limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he >earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). >Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he >hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? >Thanks, >Mike

What for?  Getting the half pay is better than none. Thumper

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is > likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free > limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he > earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). > Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he > hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? > Thanks, > Mike >If you are talking about 2006, surely he can find some business equipment >that he really wants that fits under the 100% expensable in the year >purchased category that would put him under the limit. Heck, buy a >$12,000.00 widget by paying $100.00 down and financing the rest. He writes >off 12 grand even though he only laid out $100.00. Do that until he hits 65 >and then sell the equip at a writeable loss or just keep on keepin on.

Not unless he is running a business.  If he lies about it and gets caught,  he’ll end up paying a lot more. Thumper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Many smart people say this to their kids. "To hell with college, learn the >IRS code" It’s much cheaper and a hell of a lots more profitable!!!

Response:

My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? Thanks, Mike

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> My father is 63 yrs old, and is currently receiving ss benefits. It is > likely, that thru self-employment, he will surpass the $12,000 tax-free > limit in earnings next year, and will then be taxed $1 for every $2 he > earns above $12,000 (thus 50%!!). > Is there a way to ‘postpone’ benefits for the next two years til he > hits age 65? Or is it "once you’re in, you can’t get out of it"? > Thanks, > Mike

If you are talking about 2006, surely he can find some business equipment that he really wants that fits under the 100% expensable in the year purchased category that would put him under the limit. Heck, buy a $12,000.00 widget by paying $100.00 down and financing the rest. He writes off 12 grand even though he only laid out $100.00. Do that until he hits 65 and then sell the equip at a writeable loss or just keep on keepin on. Many smart people say this to their kids. "To hell with college, learn the IRS code" It’s much cheaper and a hell of a lots more profitable!!! — What this country needs is a government in which there are two four year term limits for everybody, no contributions of any kind to anyone that the contributor can NOT vote for, no retirement plan for politicians and no taxpayer money to anyone that has not voted in 3 of the past 4 elections and no taxpayer funded grants to anyone, only loans that must be paid back at the private sector rate of interest. And I submit to you that it is YOUR fault for not insisting that we have such a system. Criticism is easy and takes no intelligence at all. Offerring a valid, different solution takes brains. J. C.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes, they are called MEXICANS! >In california state government, Cal Trans for instance, on >touring their 9 story building, (about half the desks empty >but with coffee cups full of two day old coffee)… I met very >latino’s. >The staff population was close to 100% american, blacks and >whites on the first floor public offices. >The 12 stories above at a guess was close to 100% asian, >philipino, korean and chinese, most not fluent in english, >some couldnt understand my questions at all,      Those will >retire after 20 years at around 35,000 dollars a year…in 10 >more years they can retire at 60,000 to 100,000 dollars a >year. >(the current average american retirement after 45 yearsm at >age 65 averages 900 dollars a month…. parking tickets in SF >calif are 85 dollars… the last meter maid that ticketed me >didnt speak english) >I waiting outside of the Marin county corporate offices >yesterday at shift change…  about 20 chinese guys passed me >on their way out, they could have been native americans but I >doubt it… a few were speaking mandarin….only two or three >obvious americans passed me, in suits they looked like >attorneys. >Government is going broke… the middle class tax base is >collapsing for 5 years now, but even before that govt was >hiring green card people predominantly it appears. >Phil Scott

        Why are  you so interested  in the language you hear spoken? Thumper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> I’m surprised to still see these people showing up in >>> Immigration fora >>> claiming the Illegals and other 3rd-World Stormtroopers >>> are here to >>> take jobs Americans don’t want. That is straight-up >>> bullshit for all >>> of us old enough to remember our communities before >>> Illegals and >>> visa-hires showed up, that’s something we personally know >>> not to be >>> the case. Those readers who are younger should engage >>> their >>> imaginations a little bit and realize that Americans have >>> always done >>> every sort of job. The only time they could not afford to >>> do them was >>> during periods of, you guessed it, high immigration. You >>> stop the >>> immigration, wages float back up, and Americans come in to >>> get them. >>> That’s how it’s worked for over 200 years. >>> The only practical effect of supporting Illegals and visa >>> workers is >>> to lower wages and make all of us poorer. There IS no >>> benefit. It’s as >>> simple as that. Persons who come on here talking like >>> libertarian >>> business wonks, making light of other people’s >>> unemployment or reduced >>> incomes, well, they are just bad apples. >>> Here is an interesting report from an APR frontpage link: >>> http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/november/1123_immigration_ad.shtml >>> Foreign Workers Taking Jobs Americans Want, Group’s Ad >>> Says >>> By Melanie Hunter >>> CNSNews.com Senior Editor >>> November 23, 2005 >>> (CNSNews.com) — A coalition of trade groups has launched >>> a television >>> ad campaign to address immigration and the notion that >>> "foreign >>> workers do jobs Americans won’t do." >>> The Coalition for the Future American Worker (CFAW) said >>> its campaign >>> is directed at President Bush and features blue-collar and >>> service >>> employees urging the president to cut the number of >>> foreign workers >>> allowed to enter the country. Bush has praised foreign >>> labor for >>> taking jobs Americans won’t do, but that’s a fallacy, the >>> group said. >>> "This public education campaign is long overdue. Hardly >>> anybody is >>> standing up for American workers and blue-collar families >>> any more," >>> said CFAW spokesman Roy Beck. >>> "Yet, they are the ones disproportionately affected by >>> these >>> uninhibited flows of foreign labor. Americans’ wages are >>> being >>> depressed, their jobs are being taken and they’re helpless >>> to do much >>> about it," Beck added. >>> In the commercial’s opening scene, an unemployed man is >>> sitting on the >>> back steps of a middle-class home, saying "President Bush >>> says foreign >>> workers do jobs Americans won’t do. Mr. President, I’ll do >>> that job." >>> Then the words "12 million Americans can’t find a full >>> time job" are >>> featured on the screen. >>> A hotel worker then tells Bush "if immigration increases, >>> we’ll have >>> more foreign workers who will work for next to nothing. I >>> need to make >>> enough to feed my family." That is followed by a screen >>> saying that >>> foreign workers depress U.S. wages. The ad offers >>> "educational facts >>> throughout." >>> According to Beck, all the jobs that are usually filled in >>> high >>> numbers by foreigners were recently filled by Americans. >>> "The massive influx of foreign workers has collapsed one >>> occupation >>> after another so that they no longer provide middle-class >>> wages and >>> benefits," Beck said. >>> For example, he said the meat packing industry once paid >>> "good middle >>> class wages" but after discovering that there is "an >>> endless supply" >>> of foreigners to fill those jobs, the industry has >>> "dramatically" cut >>> wages and safety conditions. >>> "It’s really a shame. Our misguided immigration policies >>> are causing >>> American workers to lose wages and eventually their jobs," >>> Beck said. >>> "The size of the flow of foreign workers into this country >>> is >>> unprecedented and undermining our entire middle-class >>> society." >>> I suggest emailing this article to your friends. >> Hank

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> Yes, they are called MEXICANS!

In california state government, Cal Trans for instance, on touring their 9 story building, (about half the desks empty but with coffee cups full of two day old coffee)… I met very latino’s. The staff population was close to 100% american, blacks and whites on the first floor public offices. The 12 stories above at a guess was close to 100% asian, philipino, korean and chinese, most not fluent in english, some couldnt understand my questions at all,      Those will retire after 20 years at around 35,000 dollars a year…in 10 more years they can retire at 60,000 to 100,000 dollars a year. (the current average american retirement after 45 yearsm at age 65 averages 900 dollars a month…. parking tickets in SF calif are 85 dollars… the last meter maid that ticketed me didnt speak english) I waiting outside of the Marin county corporate offices yesterday at shift change…  about 20 chinese guys passed me on their way out, they could have been native americans but I doubt it… a few were speaking mandarin….only two or three obvious americans passed me, in suits they looked like attorneys. Government is going broke… the middle class tax base is collapsing for 5 years now, but even before that govt was hiring green card people predominantly it appears. Phil Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I’m surprised to still see these people showing up in >> Immigration fora >> claiming the Illegals and other 3rd-World Stormtroopers >> are here to >> take jobs Americans don’t want. That is straight-up >> bullshit for all >> of us old enough to remember our communities before >> Illegals and >> visa-hires showed up, that’s something we personally know >> not to be >> the case. Those readers who are younger should engage >> their >> imaginations a little bit and realize that Americans have >> always done >> every sort of job. The only time they could not afford to >> do them was >> during periods of, you guessed it, high immigration. You >> stop the >> immigration, wages float back up, and Americans come in to >> get them. >> That’s how it’s worked for over 200 years. >> The only practical effect of supporting Illegals and visa >> workers is >> to lower wages and make all of us poorer. There IS no >> benefit. It’s as >> simple as that. Persons who come on here talking like >> libertarian >> business wonks, making light of other people’s >> unemployment or reduced >> incomes, well, they are just bad apples. >> Here is an interesting report from an APR frontpage link: >> http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/november/1123_immigration_ad.shtml >> Foreign Workers Taking Jobs Americans Want, Group’s Ad >> Says >> By Melanie Hunter >> CNSNews.com Senior Editor >> November 23, 2005 >> (CNSNews.com) — A coalition of trade groups has launched >> a television >> ad campaign to address immigration and the notion that >> "foreign >> workers do jobs Americans won’t do." >> The Coalition for the Future American Worker (CFAW) said >> its campaign >> is directed at President Bush and features blue-collar and >> service >> employees urging the president to cut the number of >> foreign workers >> allowed to enter the country. Bush has praised foreign >> labor for >> taking jobs Americans won’t do, but that’s a fallacy, the >> group said. >> "This public education campaign is long overdue. Hardly >> anybody is >> standing up for American workers and blue-collar families >> any more," >> said CFAW spokesman Roy Beck. >> "Yet, they are the ones disproportionately affected by >> these >> uninhibited flows of foreign labor. Americans’ wages are >> being >> depressed, their jobs are being taken and they’re helpless >> to do much >> about it," Beck added. >> In the commercial’s opening scene, an unemployed man is >> sitting on the >> back steps of a middle-class home, saying "President Bush >> says foreign >> workers do jobs Americans won’t do. Mr. President, I’ll do >> that job." >> Then the words "12 million Americans can’t find a full >> time job" are >> featured on the screen. >> A hotel worker then tells Bush "if immigration increases, >> we’ll have >> more foreign workers who will work for next to nothing. I >> need to make >> enough to feed my family." That is followed by a screen >> saying that >> foreign workers depress U.S. wages. The ad offers >> "educational facts >> throughout." >> According to Beck, all the jobs that are usually filled in >> high >> numbers by foreigners were recently filled by Americans. >> "The massive influx of foreign workers has collapsed one >> occupation >> after another so that they no longer provide middle-class >> wages and >> benefits," Beck said. >> For example, he said the meat packing industry once paid >> "good middle >> class wages" but after discovering that there is "an >> endless supply" >> of foreigners to fill those jobs, the industry has >> "dramatically" cut >> wages and safety conditions. >> "It’s really a shame. Our misguided immigration policies >> are causing >> American workers to lose wages and eventually their jobs," >> Beck said. >> "The size of the flow of foreign workers into this country >> is >> unprecedented and undermining our entire middle-class >> society." >> I suggest emailing this article to your friends. > Hank

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m surprised to still see these people showing up in Immigration fora > claiming the Illegals and other 3rd-World Stormtroopers are here to > take jobs Americans don’t want. That is straight-up bullshit for all > of us old enough to remember our communities before Illegals and > visa-hires showed up, that’s something we personally know not to be > the case. Those readers who are younger should engage their > imaginations a little bit and realize that Americans have always done > every sort of job. The only time they could not afford to do them was > during periods of, you guessed it, high immigration. You stop the > immigration, wages float back up, and Americans come in to get them. > That’s how it’s worked for over 200 years. > The only practical effect of supporting Illegals and visa workers is > to lower wages and make all of us poorer. There IS no benefit. It’s as > simple as that. Persons who come on here talking like libertarian > business wonks, making light of other people’s unemployment or reduced > incomes, well, they are just bad apples. > Here is an interesting report from an APR frontpage link: > http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/november/1123_immigration_ad.shtml > Foreign Workers Taking Jobs Americans Want, Group’s Ad Says > By Melanie Hunter > CNSNews.com Senior Editor > November 23, 2005 > (CNSNews.com) — A coalition of trade groups has launched a television > ad campaign to address immigration and the notion that "foreign > workers do jobs Americans won’t do." > The Coalition for the Future American Worker (CFAW) said its campaign > is directed at President Bush and features blue-collar and service > employees urging the president to cut the number of foreign workers > allowed to enter the country. Bush has praised foreign labor for > taking jobs Americans won’t do, but that’s a fallacy, the group said. > "This public education campaign is long overdue. Hardly anybody is > standing up for American workers and blue-collar families any more," > said CFAW spokesman Roy Beck. > "Yet, they are the ones disproportionately affected by these > uninhibited flows of foreign labor. Americans’ wages are being > depressed, their jobs are being taken and they’re helpless to do much > about it," Beck added. > In the commercial’s opening scene, an unemployed man is sitting on the > back steps of a middle-class home, saying "President Bush says foreign > workers do jobs Americans won’t do. Mr. President, I’ll do that job." > Then the words "12 million Americans can’t find a full time job" are > featured on the screen. > A hotel worker then tells Bush "if immigration increases, we’ll have > more foreign workers who will work for next to nothing. I need to make > enough to feed my family." That is followed by a screen saying that > foreign workers depress U.S. wages. The ad offers "educational facts > throughout." > According to Beck, all the jobs that are usually filled in high > numbers by foreigners were recently filled by Americans. > "The massive influx of foreign workers has collapsed one occupation > after another so that they no longer provide middle-class wages and > benefits," Beck said. > For example, he said the meat packing industry once paid "good middle > class wages" but after discovering that there is "an endless supply" > of foreigners to fill those jobs, the industry has "dramatically" cut > wages and safety conditions. > "It’s really a shame. Our misguided immigration policies are causing > American workers to lose wages and eventually their jobs," Beck said. > "The size of the flow of foreign workers into this country is > unprecedented and undermining our entire middle-class society." > I suggest emailing this article to your friends.

Hank

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Yes, they are called MEXICANS!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m surprised to still see these people showing up in Immigration fora > claiming the Illegals and other 3rd-World Stormtroopers are here to > take jobs Americans don’t want. That is straight-up bullshit for all > of us old enough to remember our communities before Illegals and > visa-hires showed up, that’s something we personally know not to be > the case. Those readers who are younger should engage their > imaginations a little bit and realize that Americans have always done > every sort of job. The only time they could not afford to do them was > during periods of, you guessed it, high immigration. You stop the > immigration, wages float back up, and Americans come in to get them. > That’s how it’s worked for over 200 years. > The only practical effect of supporting Illegals and visa workers is > to lower wages and make all of us poorer. There IS no benefit. It’s as > simple as that. Persons who come on here talking like libertarian > business wonks, making light of other people’s unemployment or reduced > incomes, well, they are just bad apples. > Here is an interesting report from an APR frontpage link: > http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/november/1123_immigration_ad.shtml > Foreign Workers Taking Jobs Americans Want, Group’s Ad Says > By Melanie Hunter > CNSNews.com Senior Editor > November 23, 2005 > (CNSNews.com) — A coalition of trade groups has launched a television > ad campaign to address immigration and the notion that "foreign > workers do jobs Americans won’t do." > The Coalition for the Future American Worker (CFAW) said its campaign > is directed at President Bush and features blue-collar and service > employees urging the president to cut the number of foreign workers > allowed to enter the country. Bush has praised foreign labor for > taking jobs Americans won’t do, but that’s a fallacy, the group said. > "This public education campaign is long overdue. Hardly anybody is > standing up for American workers and blue-collar families any more," > said CFAW spokesman Roy Beck. > "Yet, they are the ones disproportionately affected by these > uninhibited flows of foreign labor. Americans’ wages are being > depressed, their jobs are being taken and they’re helpless to do much > about it," Beck added. > In the commercial’s opening scene, an unemployed man is sitting on the > back steps of a middle-class home, saying "President Bush says foreign > workers do jobs Americans won’t do. Mr. President, I’ll do that job." > Then the words "12 million Americans can’t find a full time job" are > featured on the screen. > A hotel worker then tells Bush "if immigration increases, we’ll have > more foreign workers who will work for next to nothing. I need to make > enough to feed my family." That is followed by a screen saying that > foreign workers depress U.S. wages. The ad offers "educational facts > throughout." > According to Beck, all the jobs that are usually filled in high > numbers by foreigners were recently filled by Americans. > "The massive influx of foreign workers has collapsed one occupation > after another so that they no longer provide middle-class wages and > benefits," Beck said. > For example, he said the meat packing industry once paid "good middle > class wages" but after discovering that there is "an endless supply" > of foreigners to fill those jobs, the industry has "dramatically" cut > wages and safety conditions. > "It’s really a shame. Our misguided immigration policies are causing > American workers to lose wages and eventually their jobs," Beck said. > "The size of the flow of foreign workers into this country is > unprecedented and undermining our entire middle-class society." > I suggest emailing this article to your friends. > Hank

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While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. Lard Valve Sucks

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> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? > Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. > Lard Valve Sucks

Something tells me he’ll be back. But….he has been awfully quite for a loooong time, hasn’t he?  I’d like to think he’s laying low for a while, hoping that things improve for his heros is D.C.  It really sucks when you stand up for someone….and they turn out to be even worse than people first accused!  I mean, with all the crap coming out of Washington….every single DAY, more dirt comes out.  The media can’t even keep up with it all!! Hilrarious!  (in a very sad sort of way, that is.) I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.  On one hand, I’m glad people are starting to see what’s been going on.  On the other hand….when people realize…..well, you know.  That’s the sad part. Not a good feeling to realize you’ve been raped….several times. Maybe LV is getting therapy to cope with it all…… Mike

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You mean have "NOT" seen the Fart Valve posting, right? Maybe the senile sap died already, heh? Back to you, Ka-Bonger…

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I saw a short piece on the news – "Rescue teams forklifted a huge, nearly comatose amp tech from his Denver home. The unnamed tech was found in a pile of Hostess Ho-Ho wrappers, pie plates, pork chop bones, and – of course – Diet Pepsi cans.   The already-oversized front door had to be widened further to make way for the forklift. Mysteriously, the floors had been previously reinforced. "Walls were plastered with posters of Rush Limbaugh, George W. Bush, Bill o’Reilly, and Ann Coulter. ‘Jeez – looks like the home of a serial killer,’ one EMT remarked." The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

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Mr William ‘Willie’ Whittaker passed away on November 7th. Cause of death: Suffocating in a pile of his own bullshit.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I saw a short piece on the news – > "Rescue teams forklifted a huge, nearly comatose amp > tech from his Denver home. The unnamed tech was > found in a pile of Hostess Ho-Ho wrappers, pie plates, > pork chop bones, and – of course – Diet Pepsi cans.   > The already-oversized front door had to be widened > further to make way for the forklift. Mysteriously, the > floors had been previously reinforced. > "Walls were plastered with posters of Rush Limbaugh, > George W. Bush, Bill o’Reilly, and Ann Coulter. ‘Jeez – > looks like the home of a serial killer,’ one EMT remarked." > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

Despite the fact every one of those images is a direct steal from moi, you get points for having attempted creativity. At Ease.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I saw a short piece on the news – > "Rescue teams forklifted a huge, nearly comatose amp > tech from his Denver home. The unnamed tech was > found in a pile of Hostess Ho-Ho wrappers, pie plates, > pork chop bones, and – of course – Diet Pepsi cans.   > The already-oversized front door had to be widened > further to make way for the forklift. Mysteriously, the > floors had been previously reinforced. > "Walls were plastered with posters of Rush Limbaugh, > George W. Bush, Bill o’Reilly, and Ann Coulter. ‘Jeez – > looks like the home of a serial killer,’ one EMT remarked." > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/ >Despite the fact every one of those images is a direct steal from >moi, you get points for having attempted creativity. At Ease.

Now that Lard Vulva has gone silent, if only momentarily, perhaps Marc will stop patting himself loudly on the back while attempting a solo rimjob, if only momentarily.   Hey, don’t laugh, it could happen — then again, maybe not….        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? > Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. > Lard Valve Sucks

See how, like a recently released prisoner begins to get itchy for the buggering he was forcibly dealt on the inside, this subjekt begins to crave that which he professes to abhor. Diagnose:  Pathetisch. Dr. F.

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> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? > Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. > Lard Valve Sucks

He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production devices. Google it. John

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>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >NOS vs. new production devices.

Not in his opinion  :-) The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

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>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >NOS vs. new production devices. >Not in his opinion  :-) >The Repair Guy >http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

Enough it appears he’s gone away to pout. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, Max Floater and the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Lars Overshank (aka ‘The Cowardly Lion’) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

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>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >NOS vs. new production devices. >Not in his opinion  :-)

Shoot — "in his opinion" he’s ten feet tall and bulletproof, but that doesn’t make it so.            Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >NOS vs. new production devices. > Not in his opinion  :-) > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

And that’s fine. We all go off our keel sometimes. I’m cutting a little slack here because we all know the NOS devices were more robust. But the current production models are gaining some ground in that regard. John

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>>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >>NOS vs. new production devices. >Not in his opinion  :-) >Enough it appears he’s gone away to pout.

Ah, there’ll be some reason. Yngwie’s band probably stopped for some of Lady Valve’s cookies, and to have their Marshalls rebuilt. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

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>>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >>NOS vs. new production devices. > Not in his opinion  :-) >And that’s fine. We all go off our keel sometimes.

And if we’d all admit it, it might be a more civilized world… >I’m cutting a little slack here because we all >know the NOS devices were more robust. But >the current production models are gaining some >ground in that regard.

I have no opinion. I haven’t played enough tube amps to hear subtleties. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? > Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. > Lard Valve Sucks > He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production > devices. > Google it. > John

doubt THAT would keep him away.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? >> Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. >> Lard Valve Sucks > He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production > devices. > Google it. > John > doubt THAT would keep him away.

Yes, I doubt it is any one thing. There were a few irons in the fire and when all combined the result could be just enough. One never knows how things will come together to shape one’s decisions. John

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >>>NOS vs. new production devices. >>Not in his opinion  :-) >And that’s fine. We all go off our keel sometimes. > And if we’d all admit it, it might be a more > civilized world… >I’m cutting a little slack here because we all >know the NOS devices were more robust. But >the current production models are gaining some >ground in that regard. > I have no opinion. I haven’t played enough tube > amps to hear subtleties. > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

By "robust", I was referring to the plate voltage. As was pointed out by one poster, the voltages used on the NOS devices were far below what they were capable of handling. The NOS tubes were just beginning to take notice, as it were. At the same time, if decent voltages used by the NOS tubes were applied to the newer devices, you might get catastrophic results. Sparks and smoke and flames. Oh my! John

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? >>> Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. >>> Lard Valve Sucks >> He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production >> devices. >> Google it. >> John > doubt THAT would keep him away. > Yes, I doubt it is any one thing. There were a few irons in the fire and > when all combined the result could be just enough. One never knows how > things will come together to shape one’s decisions. > John

Ke-riste..! ! Suddenly, Ed is back with 7th grade insight…  someone else thinks LV "took a paisting" (???)…  Sheesh..! ! !   Me thinks he showed that *regular amps* using *regular* settings sound VERY similar using just about any of todays *good* currently made tubes.  Rich K. posted that NOS is *capable* of much more, which is certainly true…  but how many "players" are out there pushing their amps into the MAXIMUM envelope of capability…???  In the final analysis… Rich was correct… and LV was also correct… Ummm… I see an analogy coming… (!?!?!)  as in… if you need an engine for a ‘63 Vette, you get the CORRECT engine for the job… but, if you have a CAMRY/HONDA/BUICK…  there are LOTS of engines that have the *power* to do the trick. Same with tubes…  as far as Rich K. is concerned… (this is my opinion of Rich’s point-of-view, and my onpinion only..)  If I wanted an amp to be *tweaked* to maximum available "anything"… I wouldn’t hesitate to take it to Rich to get the job done.  If I needed *design* consulting for a tube amp, I’d go to Rich as well… But… if I need power tubes for a Reverend/Fender/Marshall/Etc… that is set-up within relatively *standard* parameters, I suspect that LV could provide non-NOS tubes that would fill the bill.  Or, at least his ‘test’ shows that in this circumstance, non-NOS tubes are more than adequate. Lastly, unlike many other wankers in this NG… LV is a "player" of some repute (as are many others on AGA), and… as he has said before, was putting together a band and getting "back into the music biz". Well… *DUH*..! ! ! !   I figure he’s finally found a bass player and is spending his free time rehearsing/recording/*doing* music instead of rattling the cages of usual suspects on the AGA. So… while Blum talks of ‘lighting farts’… (that’s about as mature as Ed gets..) and Timepax yammers on lying this way and that to try his best to "win" some minor point, LV is most likely adding ‘a real gigging band’ to his current resume. I think I’ll call him and see what’s doing….  I need some parts anyway… maybe a spkr, or eight, or sixteen as well… (!!!!!) gtski

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> While his ass-mouse, Lupie Fruitie was lighting his own farts? >>>> Perhaps that’s why we have seen the Mother Lard posting lately. >>>> Lard Valve Sucks >>> He took a pretty hard pasting a while back om NOS vs. new production >>> devices. >>> Google it. >>> John >> doubt THAT would keep him away. > Yes, I doubt it is any one thing. There were a few irons in the fire and > when all combined the result could be just enough. One never knows how > things will come together to shape one’s decisions. > John > Ke-riste..! ! > Suddenly, Ed is back with 7th grade insight…  someone else thinks LV > "took a paisting" (???)…  Sheesh..! ! !   Me thinks he showed that > *regular amps* using *regular* settings sound VERY similar using just > about any of todays *good* currently made tubes.  Rich K. posted that > NOS is *capable* of much more, which is certainly true…  but how > many "players" are out there pushing their amps into the MAXIMUM > envelope of capability…???  In the final analysis… Rich was > correct… and LV was also correct… > Ummm… I see an analogy coming… (!?!?!)  as in… if you need an > engine for a ‘63 Vette, you get the CORRECT engine for the job… but, > if you have a CAMRY/HONDA/BUICK…  there are LOTS of engines that > have the *power* to do the trick. > Same with tubes…  as far as Rich K. is concerned… (this is my > opinion of Rich’s point-of-view, and my onpinion only..)  If I wanted > an amp to be *tweaked* to maximum available "anything"… I wouldn’t > hesitate to take it to Rich to get the job done.  If I needed *design* > consulting for a tube amp, I’d go to Rich as well… > But… if I need power tubes for a Reverend/Fender/Marshall/Etc… > that is set-up within relatively *standard* parameters, I suspect that > LV could provide non-NOS tubes that would fill the bill.  Or, at least > his ‘test’ shows that in this circumstance, non-NOS tubes are more > than adequate. > Lastly, unlike many other wankers in this NG… LV is a "player" of > some repute (as are many others on AGA), and… as he has said before, > was putting together a band and getting "back into the music biz". > Well… *DUH*..! ! ! !   I figure he’s finally found a bass player and > is spending his free time rehearsing/recording/*doing* music instead > of rattling the cages of usual suspects on the AGA. > So… while Blum talks of ‘lighting farts’… (that’s about as mature > as Ed gets..) and Timepax yammers on lying this way and that to try > his best to "win" some minor point, LV is most likely adding ‘a real > gigging band’ to his current resume. > I think I’ll call him and see what’s doing….  I need some parts > anyway… maybe a spkr, or eight, or sixteen as well… (!!!!!) > gtski

Find out what you can about Derek’s role in the upcoming EC world tour while you’re at it.  I’ve heard the band lineup will be quite a departure from the last one.  The european dates are already on sale. Rumor has it that LV also got an offer to do some recording with Derek and Susan when they finish getting their studio set up.  My parts order ships Monday. Jeff

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> He took a pretty hard pasting a while back on >>>> NOS vs. new production devices. >>> Not in his opinion  :-) >> And that’s fine. We all go off our keel sometimes. > And if we’d all admit it, it might be a more > civilized world… >> I’m cutting a little slack here because we all know the NOS devices >> were more robust. But the current production models are gaining some >> ground in that regard. > I have no opinion. I haven’t played enough tube > amps to hear subtleties. > The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/ > By "robust", I was referring to the plate voltage. As was pointed out by > one poster, the voltages used on the NOS devices were far below what > they were capable of handling. The NOS tubes were just beginning to take > notice, as it were. At the same time, if decent voltages used by the NOS > tubes were applied to the newer devices, you might get catastrophic > results. Sparks and smoke and flames. Oh my! > John

Perhaps limiting the test to "in a given STOCK amp, will the performance be similar?"  would have made more sense than trying to say the new product is equivalent in every way to the NOS.

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To: Champion debaters, wordsmiths, intellectuals (actual or self professed), et al. May I offer: Never shallowly discount Lord Willy, "the" resident logodaedalian of alt.guitar.amps. Moreover: LV is as staunch of the embodiment of an American as – any. Read into. PS, the cat is a pure sack full’a soul, if, per chance, you have been too errant to notice. ’nuff said…

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> To: Champion debaters, wordsmiths, intellectuals (actual or self > professed), et al. > May I offer: Never shallowly discount Lord Willy, "the" resident > logodaedalian of alt.guitar.amps. > Moreover: LV is as staunch of the embodiment of an American as – any. > Read into. > PS, the cat is a pure sack full’a soul, if, per chance, you have been > too errant to notice. > ’nuff said…

Mem Shannon’s Ode to Denver’s William the Wad & AGA ‘Pals’  From the CD "I’m From Phunkville" Cut #12 3:52 _Ignant__Stick_ It might be made of wood–it might be made of steel It’s gonna hurt like hell and take a long time to heal Somebody gonna hit you with an ignant stick For trying to pull some stuff like this Somebody gonna hit you upside your head Better keep your promise an do like you said Big man you better leave good people alone They doin bad enough on their own You better stop treating good people bad You gonna have a whole lotta stuff on your hands Hey you Mr. politician You better stop abusing your position And you Mr. boss man You better honor your retirement plan Keep track of all your lies You gonna wind up with a big surprise It may be man or it may be God You gonna fall down awfully hard

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> PS, the cat is a pure sack

A pure sack indeed…

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did courageously avow: >To: Champion debaters, wordsmiths, intellectuals (actual or self >professed), et al. >May I offer: Never shallowly discount Lord Willy, "the" resident >logodaedalian of alt.guitar.amps. >Moreover: LV is as staunch of the embodiment of an American as – any. >Read into. >PS, the cat is a pure sack full’a soul, if, per chance, you have been >too errant to notice. >’nuff said…

LV is no better than a bushel sack of the worst offal mother nature has ever been known to produce. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, Max Floater and the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Lars Overshank (aka ‘The Cowardly Lion’) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

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Clinton was a student president. The most he could muster was a Whitewater, a kid’s stuff cigar fiasco, and a sophmoric what is, "is." Bush, George W., now there’s a pro. In the service of pros. A mass murderer, a large scale oil thief, and no doubt the most hated man on earth. Would that this latter be due to being such a good person showing up the rest rather than as a scoundrel of scoundrels. Bill is trying to raise his C.Q., Creep Quotient, must figure better late than never, hanging out with the elder George.

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The Meat Room by John Leary Negotiations began fifty-five years ago. The latest round starts today. We’re sitting at the monitors, waiting to see who the other side is going to send into the room.      Back during the initial negotiations, thousands and thousands of casualties ago, they were so stupid. In the Meat Room we have notes from dead old-timers, documenting the stupidity of these people. Some of the notes are pretty funny. For example, on the first day of the first round of negotiations, these people came into the negotiating room in their military uniforms. They just strode right in, decked up and down with ribbons and parachuting patches and regiment buttons and multicolored silk regalia bands. Our side took quick looks at our laminated pocket cards and immediately knew their ranks. They were even stupid enough to wear name tags.      Within a year they were all dead.      For the eighth round of negotiations, they used professional negotiators, men and women who were hired to argue then hide. We set out shiny cocktail stirs and plates of red gherkins. Intelligence reports told us they liked those things. We earned their trust. Even so, it took nearly two years to find them all.      After each round of negotiations, Eradication Reports would pop up on the monitors and we would stand around the Meat Room and mock-shrug at each other: "Another one of their negotiators dead. Huh. Talk about rotten luck." Then we would laugh and smile grimly.      At the beginning of the twenty-third round, we waited behind our monitors to see who would enter the negotiating room. Three men and two women entered proudly. They were from a neighboring area; they were third-party representatives. Their status as a third party gave them protection, even immunity. Or so they thought. We offered them apricot soda and candied carrots, as per the intelligence reports. They ate and drank with gusto, and negotiated with the lackadaisical fervor of the just. Three days after the round of negotiations concluded, we had tracked each one of them to their home, and each one was killed by a large stone dropped from a medium height.      Our job in the Meat Room is tracking. We have advances they never had in the old days, more gadgets. But the other side is smarter now, too. They know that touching your lips to the shiny bulb of a cocktail stir leaves DNA residue. They know we can pack any food item with two or three rogue additives. Everyone remembers the first time we offered them the shaker of carob flakes and they declined, pulling out their own shaker. That was a day of crisis around here.      From the moment they sit down, we are performing Heat-Vapor Resonance profiles on each one of them. Everyone in the world has a unique HVR profile. We feed their profiles into the databank and the satellites and drones go to work. Some guys complain that the technological advances make things more boring than the old days, but most of us realize how lucky we are to have steady jobs in today’s economy. As the guys in Tech make new advances, pressure flows up to schedule more rounds of negotiations. With HVR, we are more efficient. We have had a hiring freeze, and two guys took early retirement.      Some older guys talk of a golden age when the tech was fun but not flawless. The bulletin board in the lunchroom outside the Meat Room has thumbtacked pictures of some triumphs: Remote control rats made from C4. Small rubber balls filled with nitroglycerin pellets. Tiny exploding flowers. A coin with gas-lock charge so small that the detonation is no louder than a rat sneezing, but the charge abrades the skin and poison gets underneath: they get a little blister, then in fifty-six hours they are dead.      Today is the first day of the latest round of negotiations, and the fifty-fifth anniversary of the first round of negotiations. We have heard from the guys in Dispatch that this is an important round, and the other side is going to use some new negotiators. We’ve been using anima-bots for ten years. The anima-bots are activated, waiting just outside the door to the negotiating room. On the monitors we see the doors, we see the table in the negotiating room. The table is covered with plates of shiny objects. If negotiations drag on long enough, one of their side will always get fatigued and will grab one of the shiny objects and pop it into his mouth, or touch it and pocket it.      Despite the attrition among their negotiators, for the last fifteen rounds they have been represented by low-level officers. These young men negotiate with the raw vitriol of the inexperienced. In the days before the HRV profiles they would each get a paper clip. We would send the young men a letter with some photos of livid women enclosed. Intelligence reports told us that they like livid women. They would be smart enough to destroy the photos, but they would always retain the paper clip. Shiny objects are rare where they live. They would carry the paper clip around with them, pop it into their mouth when they were nervous. Shiny metal is something they suck on. The paper clips are poison, underneath a thin chrome layer.      None of their low-level officers have been located in any of the neighboring quadrants. As we sit at the monitors, one of the guys asks the room, "What would you do? What would you send into the room?" We have different answers: Audio-animatronics, holograms, crystalline projections. We would never be so stupid as to send living people into the room. But we laugh. We know we are the only ones who can make even rudimentary proto-plastic figurines. They do not have the technology to do any of those things.      We wait. They are late. Someone half-heartedly tries to start a betting pool as to whether they will even show up. On the monitors, we see the conference room door swing open, then close. It is heavy. The door opens again and their contingent comes in, walking close to each other, bumping each other. Girls. They are between eight and ten years old, dressed in denim and white blouses. We will wait a few minutes to observe them before sending in the anima-bots. We want them to relax so we can observe them. They all sit close to one another; they seem nervous. Two share one seat. One says "Ooooh!" at a plate of shiny objects, and they pass it around. Hair clips. They braid and clip one another’s hair. We watch them carefully. Brown eyes and gentle lips. None of them look like our daughters. Some of them resemble, slightly, friends of our daughters.      We are all a little disappointed. This is going to be so easging out with the elder George.

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> Clinton was a student president. > The most he could muster was a Whitewater, a kid’s stuff cigar fiasco, > and a sophmoric what is, "is." > Bush, George W., now there’s a pro. > In the service of pros. > A mass murderer, a large scale oil thief, and no doubt the most hated > man on earth. > Would that this latter be due to being such a good person showing up > the rest rather than as a scoundrel of scoundrels. > Bill is trying to raise his C.Q., Creep Quotient, must figure better > late than never, hanging out with the elder George.

Asshat.

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Are you surprised? Dubya has to ensure his retirement plan is watertight (pun intended).

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> The very first thing George W. Bush did in response to Hurricane > Katrina was to offer a helping hand

Before It’s Too Late in Iraq By Wesley K. Clark Friday, August 26, 2005; Page A21 In the old, familiar fashion, mounting U.S. casualties in Iraq have mobilized increasing public doubts about the war. More than half the American people now believe that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. They’re right. But it would also be a mistake to pull out now, or to start pulling out or to set a date certain for pulling out. Instead we need a strategy to create a stable, democratizing and peaceful state in Iraq — a strategy the administration has failed to develop and articulate. From the outset of the U.S. post-invasion efforts, we needed a three-pronged strategy: diplomatic, political and military. Iraq sits geographically on the fault line between Shiite and Sunni Islam; for the mission to succeed we will have to be the catalyst for regional cooperation, not regional conflict. Unfortunately, the administration didn’t see the need for a diplomatic track, and its scattershot diplomacy in the region — threats, grandiose pronouncements and truncated communications — has been ill-advised and counterproductive. The U.S. diplomatic failure has magnified the difficulties facing the political and military elements of strategy by contributing to the increasing infiltration of jihadists and the surprising resiliency of the insurgency. On the political track, aiming for a legitimate, democratic Iraqi government was essential, but the United States was far too slow in mobilizing Iraqi political action. A wasted first year encouraged a rise in sectarian militias and the emergence of strong fractionating forces. Months went by without a U.S. ambassador in Iraq, and today political development among the Iraqis is hampered by the lack not only of security but also of a stable infrastructure program that can reliably deliver gas, electricity and jobs. Meanwhile, on the military track, security on the ground remains poor at best. U.S. armed forces still haven’t received resources, restructuring and guidance adequate for the magnitude of the task. Only in June, over two years into the mission of training Iraqi forces, did the president announce such "new steps" as partnering with Iraqi units, establishing "transition teams" to work with Iraqi units and training Iraqi ministries to conduct antiterrorist operations. But there is nothing new about any of this; it is the same nation-building doctrine that we used in Vietnam. Where are the thousands of trained linguists? Where are the flexible, well-resourced, military-led infrastructure development programs to win "hearts and minds?" Where are the smart operations and adequate numbers of forces — U.S., coalition or Iraqi — to strengthen control over the borders? With each passing month the difficulties are compounded and the chances for a successful outcome are reduced. Urgent modification of the strategy is required before it is too late to do anything other than simply withdraw our forces. Adding a diplomatic track to the strategy is a must. The United States should form a standing conference of Iraq’s neighbors, complete with committees dealing with all the regional economic and political issues, including trade, travel, cross-border infrastructure projects and, of course, cutting off the infiltration of jihadists. The United States should tone down its raw rhetoric and instead listen more carefully to the many voices within the region. In addition, a public U.S. declaration forswearing permanent bases in Iraq would be a helpful step in engaging both regional and Iraqi support as we implement our plans. On the political side, the timeline for the agreements on the Constitution is less important than the substance of the document. It is up to American leadership to help engineer, implement and sustain a compromise that will avoid the "red lines" of the respective factions and leave in place a state that both we and Iraq’s neighbors can support. So no Kurdish vote on independence, a restricted role for Islam and limited autonomy in the south. And no private militias. In addition, the United States needs a legal mandate from the government to provide additional civil assistance and advice, along with additional U.S. civilian personnel, to help strengthen the institutions of government. Key ministries must be reinforced, provincial governments made functional, a system of justice established (and its personnel trained) and the rule of law promoted at the local level. There will be a continuing need for assistance in institutional development, leadership training and international monitoring for years to come, and all of this must be made palatable to Iraqis concerned with their nation’s sovereignty. Monies promised for reconstruction simply must be committed and projects moved forward, especially in those areas along the border and where the insurgency has the greatest potential. On the military side, the vast effort underway to train an army must be matched by efforts to train police and local justices. Canada, France and Germany should be engaged to assist. Neighboring states should also provide observers and technical assistance. In military terms, striking at insurgents and terrorists is necessary but insufficient. Military and security operations must return primarily to the tried-and-true methods of counterinsurgency: winning the hearts and minds of the populace through civic action, small-scale economic development and positive daily interactions. Ten thousand Arab Americans with full language proficiency should be recruited to assist as interpreters. A better effort must be made to control jihadist infiltration into the country by a combination of outposts, patrols and reaction forces reinforced by high technology. Over time U.S. forces should be pulled back into reserve roles and phased out. The growing chorus of voices demanding a pullout should seriously alarm the Bush administration, because President Bush and his team are repeating the failure of Vietnam: failing to craft a realistic and effective policy and instead simply demanding that the American people show resolve. Resolve isn’t enough to mend a flawed approach — or to save the lives of our troops. If the administration won’t adopt a winning strategy, then the American people will be justified in demanding that it bring our troops home. _____ The writer, a retired Army general, was supreme allied commander in Europe during the war in Kosovo. He was a candidate for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination, and will answer questions today at 2 p.m. on http://www.washingtonpost.com.

I had an interesting question posed to me and I’d like to pass it on if anyone could be so kind as to answer it. How many black congressmen or senators has each of the Democratic and Republican parties had elected to these positions? Thanks in advance. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

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I think the history of these Senators reflects the changes in the nature of the Republican and Democractic parties since the civil war, a change we have discussed several times here.  There have been only 5 black Senators, one a former slave, and one also half Indian. Barack Obama, the newly elected senator from Illinois, is currently the only Black senator. He is the third Black senator since Reconstruction – the other two being Carole Moseley Braun (also Illinois, Land of Lincoln – a dem) and Edward Brooke ( Massachusetts – Rep). There were also two Black senators elected during the post civil war reconstruction. They were Hiram Rhoades Revels and Blanche K. Bruce, both from Mississippi. Carol Moseley Braun Carol Moseley Braun was born in Chicago on August 16, 1947. Her father, a law enforcement officer, was a consummate renaissance man, a musician who mastered seven instruments and spoke several languages. Her mother was a medical technician. Together they encouraged their children to pursue excellence, embrace opportunity and follow their dreams. Her life reflects this philosophy. Ms. Moseley Braun has served her country as a United States Senator (1992-98), U.S. Ambassador (1999-2001), as well as County Executive Officer, State Representative, and Assistant United States Attorney. Since her return in 2001 from her ambassadorial posting to New Zealand, she has taught law and political science at Morris Brown College and DePaul University, along with a business law practice and business consultancy in Chicago. The hallmark of her public service has been dedication to the harmony of the community. She is an advocate of diversity and has consistently worked to build an inclusive society. Her extensive and constructive legislative record reflects this commitment to social justice and good government. Ms. Moseley Braun is a graduate of the Chicago Public Schools. She received her Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Illinois-Chicago in 1968, and her law degree in 1972 from the University of Chicago. She joined the United States Attorney’s office in Chicago in 1973. As an Assistant United States Attorney, she worked primarily in the civil and appellate law areas and tried cases of national importance. Her work in housing, health policy, and environmental law won her the Attorney General’s Special Achievement award. She subsequently received over 300 awards for achievements in the public interest. She left the US Attorney’s office in 1977 to start a family. Her son, Matthew, is a computer engineer. As a homemaker, Ms. Moseley Braun volunteered her services on behalf of local environmental issues. Her energy and commitment inspired neighbors to encourage her to run for public office. In 1978, she was elected to the Illinois state legislature, the General Assembly. As a State Representative, she became recognized as a champion for education, governmental reform, and civil rights. As early as 1984, she proposed a moratorium on the application in Illinois of the death penalty. And in what became a landmark reapportionment case, Crosby vs. State Board of Elections, she successfully sued her own party and the state of Illinois on behalf of African American and Hispanic citizens. Soon thereafter, Ms. Moseley Braun was named Assistant Majority Leader; when she left the legislature in 1987, her colleagues recognized her in a resolution as "the conscience of the House." She served one term as Recorder of Deeds for Cook County, which includes Chicago, before running for the United States Senate. She won that race in November 1992, marking yet another historic first: first female senator from Illinois, first female African-American senator, first African-American Democratic senator. Edward William Brooke, born Oct. 26, 1919, Washington, D.C., was the first African American to be elected to the U.S. Senate in the 20th Century. He graduated from Howard University in 1941 and served in World War II as decorated captain in the combat infantry. After the War, he received two law degrees from Boston University and was editor of the law review. Shortly after beginning his law practice, Brooke entered politics as a Republican and ran twice for the Massachusetts legislature (1950 and 1952), loosing both times. Finally, after losing a bid for Secretary of State in 1960, Brook was elected Attorney General of Massachusetts and re-elected in 1964. In 1966 he was elected to the U.S. Senate and served two terms, loosing in 1978 to Democrat Paul Tsongas. Brooke opposed escalation of the Vietnam War and was the first Republican Senator to demand President Nixon’s resignation over Watergate. After leaving the Senate, Brooke resumed the practice of law, was Chairman of the National Low-Income Housing Coalition and, on June 23, 2004, was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He is now battling breast cancer and lives in Miami, Fla. Hiram Revels was born in Fayetteville, North Carolina in 1822, but an exact birthplace has not been identified. He was born of mixed African and Croatan Indian heritage to free parents. On March 8, 1838 Revels was apprenticed to his brother, Elias B. Revels, as a barber in Lincolnton, North Carolina. Although Hiram Revels’ apprenticeship was to last until his 21st birthday in 1843, his brother died in 1841 leaving Hiram to manage the barber shop. Revels apparently left the barber shop to further his education. In 1844 he was a student at the Quaker school in Liberty, Indiana. He also attended school in Ohio and was a student of Knox College. Revels was ordained as a minister by the African Methodist Church and traveled extensively ministering to African American congregations in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and Kansas. He eventually settled in Baltimore where he became principal of a school for African Americans as well as pastor of a local church. His ministerial and educational work would expand during the Civil War. With the outbreak of the Civil War in 1861, Hiram Revels turned his resources toward support for the Union cause in Maryland, a border state with divided loyalties. Revels aided in the organization of two regiments of African American troops from Maryland. Having moved to St. Louis to organize a school for African Americans, he recruited African American men for service in a Missouri regiment in 1863. His recruiting ability and ministerial training equipped Revels for active service as a Union chaplain serving with a Mississippi regiment of free blacks. At one point during his military service, Revels was the provost marshal of Vicksburg, the militarily important Mississippi River town and scene of a bloody and prolonged Union siege. At the conclusion of the war, Revels settled in Natchez, Mississippi and joined the African Methodist Episcopal Church. He continued his pastoral duties and founded new churches. In 1868, Revels was elected alderman. Struggling to keep his political and pastoral duties separate and to avoid racial conflict, Revels earned the respect of both whites and African Americans. His success in managing these forces led to his election as a state senator from Adams County, Mississippi. In 1870 Revels was elected as the first African American member of the United States Senate. Ironically, Revels was elected to fill the position vacated by Jefferson Davis almost 10 years earlier. Revels took his seat in the Senate on February 25, 1870 and served through March 4, 1871, the remainder of Davis’ vacated term. Returning to Mississippi in 1871, Revels was named president of Alcorn College, the state’s first college for African American students. He was dismissed from the Alcorn presidency in 1874 by Governor Ames but returned to the position two years later. Revels retired from Alcorn in 1882. Aside from his duties at Alcorn College, Revels served as Secretary of State Ad Interim for Mississippi in 1873. Revels actively participated in the 1875 political campaign to oust the "carpet-bag" government of Mississippi. He defended his actions in a letter to President Ulysses Grant which was published in the Daily Times of Jackson, Mississippi. The next year he became editor of the Southwestern Christian Advocate. While attending to these public activities, Revels actively continued his religious work. It was while attending a church conference in Aberdeen, Mississippi that Hiram Rhoades Revels died on January 16, 1901. Hiram Revels faced the dangers of racial conflict in the South of the Reconstruction era in a manner that won the respect of both whites and blacks. His life was dedicated to improving the spiritual and educational needs of the African American community in many states The first black person to serve a full term in the United States Senate, Blanche K. Bruce was born in slavery near Farmville, Virginia , on March 1, 1841. He was tutored by his master’s son and worked as a field hand and printer’s apprentice as his master moved him from Virginia to Mississippi and Missouri. Bruce escaped slavery at the opening of the Civil War and attempted to enlist in the Union Army. After the military refused his application, he taught school, briefly attended Oberlin College, and worked as a steamboat porter on the Mississippi River. In 1864 he settled in Hannibal Missouri, and organized the state’s first school for blacks. Five years later he moved to Mississippi where he entered local politics and established himself as a prosperous landowner. In quick succession he was appointed registrar of voters in Tallahatchie County, tax assessor of Bolivar County, and elected sheriff and tax collector of Bolivar where he also served as supervisor of education. On a trip to the state capital of Jackson in 1870, Bruce gained the attention of powerful white Republicans who dominated Mississippi’s Reconstruction government. These men secured more appointments for Bruce and made him the most recognized black political leader in the state. In … read more »

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I couldn’t find a list but I did find a book on the subjet http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/7418.html Black Faces in the Mirror: African Americans and Their Representatives in the U.S. Congress First chapter here: http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/chapters/s7418.html Joseph Hayne Rainey (June 21, 1832 – August 1, 1887) was the first African American person to serve in the United States House of Representatives and the second black U.S. Congressman. Rainey was born in Georgetown, South Carolina. His parents were both slaves, but his father, Edward, had a successful business as a barber, enabling him to purchase his family’s freedom shortly after Joseph Rainey’s birth. As an adult, Rainey followed his father by becoming a barber. In 1861, with the outbreak of the American Civil War, Rainey was drafted by the Confederate government to work on fortifications in Charleston, South Carolina, as well as to work as a laborer on blockade-runner ships. In 1862, he and his wife were able to escape to the West Indies. They settled in St. Georges, Bermuda, where Rainey continued to work as a barber for the duration of the war. In 1866, following the war’s end, Rainey returned to South Carolina. He quickly involved himself in politics, joining the executive committee of the state Republican Party. In 1868, he was a delegate to the convention which wrote the state’s new constitution. In 1870, Rainey was elected to the State Senate of South Carolina. Later that year, he was elected to fill a vacancy in the Forty-first Congress of the United States as a Republican. This vacancy had been created when the previous incumbent, B. Franklin Whittemore, was censured by the House for corruption and subsequently re-elected, after which the House refused to seat him. Rainey was seated December 12, 1870 and was re-elected to Congress four times; he served until March 3, 1879, which made him the longest-serving black Congressmen prior to William L. Dawson in the 1950s. During his term in Congress, Rainey focused on supporting legislation to protect the civil rights of Southern blacks. This pursuit eventually proved unsuccessful, with the end of Reconstruction effectively meaning that the black electorate lost all political power. In 1876, Rainey won re-election against Democratic candidate John Smythe Richardson; Richardson, however challenged the result as invalid on the grounds of intimidation by federal soldiers and black militias. Two years later, as the opponents of Reconstruction solidified their control over South Carolina politics, Rainey was defeated in a second contest with Richardson. After leaving Congress, Joseph Rainey was appointed internal-revenue agent of South Carolina. He held this position for two years, after which he began a career in private commerce. Rainey retired in 1886 and died the following year in Georgetown, the city in which he was born

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Shirley Chisholm is one of my favorite politicians and the first black US Congresswoman. She was truly unbought and unbossed. Shirley Anita St. Hill Chisholm (November 30, 1924 – January 1, 2005) was an American politician, educator and author. She was a Congresswoman representing New York’s 12th District from 1969-1983. In 1968, she became the first African-American woman elected to Congress. In 1972, she became the first African-American and the first woman to make a serious bid to be President of the United States. Born in Brooklyn, New York as Shirley St. Hill, she spent part of her childhood in Barbados with her grandmother, benefiting from the British school system. She later attended Brooklyn College and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1949. While working as a teacher, Chisholm earned a Master’s degree in elementary education from Columbia University. From 1953-1959, she was director of the Hamilton-Madison Child Care Center, and from 1959-1964 was an educational consultant for the Division of Day Care. In 1964, Chisholm ran and was elected to the New York State Legislature. She then ran as the Democratic candidate for New York’s 12th District congressional seat and was elected to the House of Representatives in 1968. She defeated Republican candidate James Farmer, to become the first African-American woman elected to Congress. As a freshman, Chisholm was assigned to the House Forestry Committee. Given her district, she felt the placement was a waste of time and shocked many by demanding reassignment. She was placed on the Veterans’ Affairs Committee. Soon after, she voted for Hale Boggs as Majority Leader over John Conyers, even though Boggs was white. As a reward for her support, Boggs assigned her to the much-prized Education and Labor Committee; she was the third-highest ranking member when she retired. Chisholm joined the Congressional Black Caucus in 1969 as one of its founding members. In 1972, Chisholm made a bid for the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination, and received 152 delegate votes, but ultimately lost the nomination to South Dakota Senator George McGovern. Chisholm’s base of support was ethnically diverse and included the National Organization for Women. Among the volunteers who were inspired by her campaign was Barbara Lee, who would go on to become a congresswoman some 25 years later. Chisholm said she ran for the office "in spite of hopeless odds," "to demonstrate the sheer will and refusal to accept the status quo." Chisholm created controversy when she visited rival and ideological opposite George Wallace in the hospital soon after his shooting during that campaign. Several years later, when Chisholm worked on a bill to give domestic workers the right to a minimum wage, Wallace got her the votes of enough southern congressmen to push the legislation through the House. Throughout her tenure in Congress, Chisholm would work to improve opportunities for inner-city residents. She was a vocal opponent of the draft and supported spending increases for education, healthcare and other social services, and reductions in military spending. She announced her retirement from Congress in 1982, and was replaced by a fellow Democrat in 1983.

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